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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are you a feminist?

999 replies

NoLoveofMine · 06/08/2017 02:03

Yes or no...

OP posts:
PotatoVegQuery · 06/08/2017 17:21

I didn't say I wasn't, although without going into details things about me, many would say I couldn't be, but if I didn't know anything about feminism read some posts by those posters there's no way I could say I was as there is some hateful undertones

BertrandRussell · 06/08/2017 17:23

I didn't say I wasn't, although without going into details things about me, many would say I couldn't be, but if I didn't know anything about feminism read some posts by those posters there's no way I could say I was as there is some hateful undertones"

What do you mean?

pongoismyhero · 06/08/2017 17:23

there's no way I could say I was as there is some hateful undertones

EG?

PotatoVegQuery · 06/08/2017 17:35

In what way Bertrand? To break it down:

I didn't say I wasn't,
Someone replied to my comment and said what mentality is that? And so I was clarifying I never said I was a feminist

although without going into details things about me,many would say I couldn't be,

Again I don't want to go into details but I have seen people in real life and on the internet debating whether I can be a feminist due to aspects of my life that I can't be bothered to get into right now

but if I didn't know anything about feminism read some posts by those posters there's no way I could say I was as there is some hateful undertones"

This is self explanatory, I won't name any posters but there are atleast a few that are quite prevalent posters on MN that are feminists but I find a lot of their posts to be hateful towards men in a distinctive way that anytime I see a post that I'm Shock about I know it's likely to be them, and I personally find it unnecessary most of the time . Therefore if all I had to go by was their posts i definitely couldn't support them

IamalsoSpartacus · 06/08/2017 17:35

Gender Critical Feminist.

If we have won the battle, how come so many women on these boards are still doing all the housework, all the emotional labour in their relationships, paying for childcare out of their personal wages, and are being financially abused, gaslighted or raped by their partners?

Also I don't accept that self-identification is sufficient grounds to allow people with penises into women's spaces.

Mumof56 · 06/08/2017 17:38

"its what people do, they have other things to worry about and changing your name or not is not going to rank high on people's worry list."

lucky they've got the feminists to worry about it for them isn't it?

Fighting the fight for things people don't really give a shit about.Choices women make for themselves.

IamalsoSpartacus · 06/08/2017 17:42

Part of feminism is consciousness-raising, so that women become aware that they can make different choices.

In the 1950s women were conditioned into giving up work when they got married. That was a "choice women made for themselves." Feminists fought to change that, and to make women aware that there were other choices they could make.

Or maybe our foremothers shoudl just have shrugged and said 'women don't give a shit about the right to earn their own money.'

BertrandRussell · 06/08/2017 17:43

So we're in "I don't like feminists because they are man haters-no I'm not going to give any examples of the man hating posters or posts" territory again, are we?

Icantreachthepretzels · 06/08/2017 17:43

I've never seen man hating on the feminist boards (not regulars anyway). Most posters are married, many have sons. I see a lot of facts and statistics that make men as a class look less than rosy, but class analysis is not about hatred. And if men don't like those statistics - well there's not anything that women can do to change them, is there?

I'm going to name names - i think the only poster who ever says anything that comes close to looking like it might be a bit unfriendly to men if you squint a bit is Vestal. But her posts aren't actually man hating, they just suggest she can't be bothered to include them in her life, that she isn't interested in giving them any of her energy.

Sadly, that's often all a woman has to do to be considered a man hater - refuse to spend her time and energy on them.

PotatoVegQuery · 06/08/2017 17:46

If that's what you want to believe Bertrand I'm not arsed to really get into it with you, but for what it's worth it's worth noting if I gave up my Sunday evening to advance search the posters to find such examples ( they post a lot and not every post is hateful) and then posted them then I would be guilty of personal attacks

Mumof56 · 06/08/2017 17:46

@Iam "so that women become aware that they can make different choices."

Do you think women are simple creatures who don't realise they have choices?

Remember we are in 2017, not 1950.

I can't believe some feminists opinion on their fellow women. Shock

BertrandRussell · 06/08/2017 17:48

Just one would do- honestly! If you've seen so many it would be easy to come up with one..

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 06/08/2017 17:48

I couldn't care less what anyone wants to name themselves.

I do care about women being safe, able to access private spaces in vulnerable situations and not having their rights violated

And I really object to women coming on and shouting 'bigot' because I don't want to get undressed in front of a man without my consent. It's really not that complicated

retreatwhispering · 06/08/2017 17:49

will you challenge beliefs and behaviours that damage men too?

Oh Takes they really don't need my help. As a group, men have quite enough power to defend themselves.

I'm happy to step up to defend boys (sex role stereotyping, circumcision, access to porn etc etc). But when it comes to adults, I prefer to direct my limited time and energy into women's issues. Wherever men and women co exist, women are provably, systemically and disproportionately disadvantaged. I would never deliberately harm men, don't hate them, wish them well.

Having said that, I believe that feminism benefits men too.

AfunaMbatata · 06/08/2017 17:50

I am, be a bit daft not to considering I'm a woman.

BertrandRussell · 06/08/2017 17:51

"Do you think women are simple creatures who don't realise they have choices?"

No. But I do think that people don't make choices in a vacuum. We all make choices that we think are free and unencumbered, but which are informed by our upbringing, by society, by a thousand things.. And if we are talking about choices around names, then many women give in to men-because men are often quite set in their ways on such issues.

PotatoVegQuery · 06/08/2017 17:52

...and yet they would still be classed as a personal attack! again I'm not arsed you can think it's baseless I literally don't care. I will point out though that I didn't say I wasn't a feminist.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 06/08/2017 17:54

It's like if I said I couldn't not be a feminist because I'm forever seeing aggressive posts from non feminists hating women - but despite that massively being a thing, I'm not going to prove it with even one example!

Icantreachthepretzels · 06/08/2017 18:02

lucky they've got the feminists to worry about it for them isn't it?

Yes, actually. Women who choose not to think very deeply are very lucky to have feminists looking out for them and thinking about their rights, on a whole range of issues.

You meant to be sarcastic but - there were women who were vehemently opposed to women's suffrage, they were lucky to have feminists looking out for them.

Women often make deeply unfeminist choices, whether its because they don't think about it, because they have to do what they can to get along in this world and that takes compromise, or because they know it's harmful to women but it suits them and their alright jack. Feminists look out for all those women.

Some issues are smaller than others. Doesn't matter. There's no harm in consciousness raising even on the little things. Changing your name on marriage is a part of patriarchy (or whatever you want to call our traditions and system). Might not actually harm anyone, but it doesn't hurt to think about it and query it. Clever people like to think about lots of things, big and small.

This entire discussion (I'll call it that) began because you said it was ridiculous to attribute women's changing their name to patriarchy because it was a free choice. When queried why they chose it you answered 'because they chose it'. I have merely pointed out that it comes with a long history of patriarchal overtones, and that if it were a free choice devoid of expectations, men would do it in equal numbers.

You can sneer about how much it doesn't matter all you like, but the tradition is what it is, the history is what it is - and there's nothing fatuous about acknowledging that.

Mumof56 · 06/08/2017 18:08

What's all this "women don't think" mantra you've got going.

Maybe they do think and reach their own conclusion?

Are feminists the only women who think?

pongoismyhero · 06/08/2017 18:12

Do you think women are simple creatures who don't realise they have choices?

Absolutely not but I do consider it a very simplistic viewpoint to think every choice a woman makes is inherently done out of free will, when we live in a society where misogyny is insidious.

I make a choice daily to wear make up. I wouldn't say it was a free choice particularly.

BertrandRussell · 06/08/2017 18:15

We al make choices every day that are informed by our society, our backgrounds and our life experience. There are practically no completely free choices at all.

itsbetterthanabox · 06/08/2017 18:18

Mumof56
I know that some women (and men) don't know it's not a choice for women to change their name upon marriage because when I didn't change my name I had a number of people say to me 'i didn't know you could do that', 'I didn't know the man could take the woman's name', 'I though we had to change our names'.
How are these women having a free choice? Especially when on top of this their fiancé will expect them to change their name? Their family and friends?

Mumof56 · 06/08/2017 18:23

as for comparing to the suffergettes. What right is being fought for in the name change debate?

The right not to change your name?...We ready have that right.

pongoismyhero · 06/08/2017 18:25

God it's like banging your head against a brick wall isn't it...