Are you a feminist?

[NoLoveofMine]

Yes or no...

Mum56
Is that why you used Mrs? How strange and imaginary.

Why would we change our name by deed poll?
Why would our kids not just have both parents names or the mothers name?

@its better

There is a female equilivant of Mr thought

Maybe we should stop women choosing to use Mrs. and Miss. and insist they use Ms. ?

How to you suggest we go about limiting their ways, they're harming feminism with their choices.

Have you all made up surnames for your children?

Why would I need to? DD has both of our surnames.

I'd love to know how many feminists have changed their name by seed poll to not have their parents name

Would you? I don't know why that would be helpful, but I'd suspect not many women object to sharing a family name or names with their parents and siblings. The whole point is that many feminists don't want to change their name from the one they were born and grew up with, because it's .... their name!

Claiming victim status because other women don't follow your choice to keep your name is bizarre

Nobody's 'claiming victim status', but if you mean 'thinking name changing on marriage is sexist and indicates we live in a sexist society', then that claim isn't made on the grounds that it's a problem that other women don't have an issue with it. This seems a bit confused.

Have you all made up surnames for your children? We wouldn't want Dad or Mum to be claiming ownership

You're not 'claiming ownership' when you give a new baby your surname. Babies have to have surnames. Of course, some people do come up with new ones, it's not that uncommon. The problem is rather that whatever name a baby is given, the girl ones are much more likely to change it to that of their spouse later than the boys.

Things like domestic violence always features the female victim but 1 in 3 victims is male, and they have literally nowhere to go.

Male victims are usually gay men with male perpetrators. It's men who are abusers.

Also, domestic violence shelters for women didn't just fall out the sky. Second wave feminists fought, fundraised and worked their fingers to the bone to open and provide these. If men want shelters for men, it's up to them to fight for them. MRAs often palm this responsibility off into feminists. Which just encompasses their ethos really - they don't want rights for men, they want to tear down women.

Maybe we should stop women choosing to use Mrs. and Miss. and insist they use Ms. ?

Or we could all be Mx in most cases. What does it matter to the bank what sex we are? In fact why bother with a title at all? We could all just be FirstName, LastName.

Surnames denoted ownership apparently. Does the mother own them any more than the father does? They should have their own special surname.

If they have both, their children 4 surnames, their grandchildren 8 surnames and so on.

The reality is some have their father's, some have their mother's, some have both.

If you know no children who have thier mother's surnames, you need to get out more.

Mum56
Could introduce a male equivalent of Mrs instead..
but it wouldn't catch on because men don't care about the marital status of other men.

Also shelters are for women fleeing relationships, often with children. They can't stay at home because often they don't have the income to afford it. Men can afford to move on elsewhere without the need of a shelter, in a great deal of cases.

Mumof56
Seriously you think people are going to end up with 8 names?
If you don't know why that doesn't happen you need to get out more. Maybe see the rest of the world that doesn't follow this sexist tradition

I'm a feminist, but because of my own beliefs, not because I subscribe to someone else's idea of what a feminist should believe. I don't believe in equality because men and women are different and have different needs.

Personally I think that support for single-parents is a feminist issue, for example, and where people are saying the battle has been won, I am bit surprised because there is ever diminishing support for single parents. Women's shelters are underfunded and closing, yet the battle has been won, while women are more and more forced to stay with abusive partners and two or three women are being killed by those abusive partners because of lack of support for single parents and a shortage of shelters. So how can anyone say the battle has been won?

I know kids with their mums surname. I'm at one.
Doesn't change anything. Look at statistics not your own personal experience.

@mum
You do know about the history of marriage? That it was invented as an financial arrangement and that a woman was considered the property of her husband, prior to that she had been the property of her father? She was sent to her husband with a dowry to help with the 'expense' of keeping her. Her change of name was just another signifier that she had changed hands.
Children were also considered property of their father, and yes giving a baby its father's name was a sign of ownership.

Historically, marriage had nothing to do with love, and, even if the laws have changed, many of the traditions that we continue with today have deeply misogynistic origins.

"You're not 'claiming ownership' when you give a new baby your surname."

@seek maybe expalin that to icant because they seem to think it does

"a woman has her father's name until she gets married and then she takes her husband - it denotes ownership of women"

'1 in 3 victims is male, and they have literally nowhere to go'

This simply isn't true. The 1 in 3 stat is false, and women's refuges are losing funding if they don't also take in men. Rooms that could keep women alive sit empty for men who appear to have no use for them. Women 'have literally nowhere to go' so that the myth that men are equally impacted by DV can be validated.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/03/domestic-violence-refuge-crisis-women-closure-safe-houses

I think the difference between what seek and I are saying is that she is talking about the here and now - where a name is just a family name, and I'm talking about the historical origin of the tradition. If a tradition has been happening for centuries then people tend to follow it unthinkingly - some people get upset (or downright ridiculous) when others question it.

Surnames denoted ownership apparently. Does the mother own them any more than the father does?
Historically? no. Women had no rights over their own children. So children take their father's name and that carries on until the present day. How can you not know this shit?

They should have their own special surname.
As far back as Viking times Scandinavians have had bespoke surnames. For example if Olaf had a son, his last name would be Olafsson. If Olaf had a daughter her last name would be Olafsdottir. She wouldn't change her name on marriage as she would remain Olafsdottir, there was no tradition of becoming Svenswife. Notice both children are named after Olaf though ... funny that ...

Mum56
That made no sense.
Yes Ms exists.
What I said was- there is no male equivalent for MRS.
Ms is a female equivalent for MR. There still isn't a male equivalent of MRS

Do you really not get this point Mum56?

No one looking at your husband's or father's name can tell if they are or have been married because it is almost entirely irrelevant. Why is it so important that the whole world and her wife knows your marital status?

"But I think that feminists should at least admit what they are striving for. Instead of saying equality for all"

What are we striving for, then?

I know kids with their mums surname. I'm at one

My brother and I both are. My mother was married twice and didn't change her name. (Although by theclogic of some on here all 3 of us would have her father's and our grandfather's name)

7 posts in and someone declares they're "not a terf". For fuck's sake. Glad we established you're not one of those meanie feminists who centres women. Big cookie for you from the menz.

Really. Amazing how there were no "terfs" in the era of the suffragettes or the second-wavers fighting for equal pay and maternity leave and reproductive freedom isn't it? It's almost like the patriarchy's latest attempt to destroy feminism is to introduce a complete non-issue bullshit distraction. But that would never happen.

"Why is it so important that the whole world and her wife knows your marital status?"

Why don't you ask women who choose to use Mrs or Miss over Ms?

But I think that feminists should at least admit what they are striving for. Instead of saying equality for all

I don't say that. I hate that saying.

We cannot even begin to speak about equality whilst the patriarchy still exists. There's no foundation on which to build equality.

YES. even more so given the current climate.