Are you a feminist?

[NoLoveofMine]

Yes or no...

"Why would I want to take an active part in the changes that are going affect my life and not want to be a bystander?"

Since when have allies been bystanders?

@pain "mum FGM is not for the parents gratification. It is done entirely for me. "

I take you mean men rather than me?

Who consents to have the child mutilated? The parents. Whether it's for cultural/religious/ sexual reasons is irrelevant. It's done because the parents allow it, to satisfy thier own relugious/cultural/sexual belues and desires. Small children do not have the capacity to make this choice. So it's totally for the parents gratification.

No, I don't identify as feminist, although some of my choices could be construed as feminist. I think the movement has become horribly divisive, and agree with someone upthread who said that feminism will eat itself. I think that's exactly what's happening.

BertrandRussell

again from experiences on the forums here

It has been posted again and again that men effectively should follow what women say on feminism (paraphrasing), Initially I have no issue, but it basically is shut up and do as we tell you.

Not really the way to promote an equal relationship.

I can't speak for other feminists but I'm not interested in equality, I'm interested in the liberation of women from male oppression

Talk of equality is utterly pointless until that has been done.

No it isn't. It is for men's gratification. Mums who don't get it done are often exiled/killed. It doesn't cross many women's minds to not have it done, it is so culturally engrained. Some run away with their daughters to prevent it and increasingly communities are set up to support them. But it is a hard hard decision to reject your culture, your family, friends and everything you know

Is it "shut up and do as we tell you"? or "stop talking and please listen"?
What is that statistic about women in meetings only have to talk 30% of the time to be considered as having dominated the meeting? Men are so used to being the ones to do the talking and making the decisions that they consider speaking 70% of the time as them being talked over and ignored. Is it really so unfair that in a women's movement we ask men to take a pew and let women hold the floor for once? ... apparently so.

"It has been posted again and again that men effectively should follow what women say on feminism (paraphrasing), Initially I have no issue, but it basically is shut up and do as we tell you."

So do you think that men should be the one dictating the feminist agenda? What would your first target be?

Yes but not to the degree of the threads on here.

Interestingly though mum, if men resist FGM for their daughters, they don't face the same stigma/danger

I find I'm more of a part-time feminist.

Fuck yes. The older I get, the more I become raging, old-school, Germaine Greer kind of feminist. The world we live on is not good enough and it needs to change.

^^ This.

BoneyBackJefferson

I prefer the term 'Ally' and that does not mean I think it is any less important.

I liken it to being white in apartheid South Africa, a white person could be an ally as in see that another group are oppressed, they can work towards ending it but they still benefit from the system, get a better education, better job opportunities if they go to prison for that stance they will still be closer to their families.

If you are attacked in the street it is not assumed you are in the wrong place and are at fault for your own assault.

That's why I prefer ally, and it has a role just as important because there are people who will listen to you because of your privilege.

And do not underestimate that role. If you are old enough to remember the 1980s and the world going insane because of this new disease, initially called GRIDS and now called HIV/AIDS it was straight women with wealth and an audience who took on the role of ally, Elizabeth Taylor being probably the best known.

When you are in a position of power, when you acknowledge that privilege you can use it.

Why would a man feel the need to be called a feminist? What is wrong with supporting the idea that women should be able to live their lives without the fear of or actual physical, sexual, emotional or financial abuse?

"Yes but not to the degree of the threads on here."

Say more?

Yes. What woman does not want equality?

Yes

Too damn right I am. No need to qualify it at all.

I do think that the tone that many mumsnet feminists adopt can be problematic. I certainly won't single anyone out as that is totally unnecessary but there are posters who I essentially agree with but who can really alienate me simply by tone. I frequently find it deeply patronising, condescending, superior and aggressive. If it alienates me then it will alienate others. I don't mean things that have been said directly to me ( I have hardly ever posted on here on any subject at all), there are examples on here.

I also worry about the tendency of some to try and find feminist issues where they don't exist. A good example is a thread where the OP tried to make the point that Tim Peake had been more lauded than Helen Sherman because he is a man. Several pages of posters pointed out that HS was equally ubiquitous as TP, as far as it was possibly to be at the time (no social media, rolling news etc). However the OP did not even have the good grace to return to the thread and acknowledge this despite posting frequently elsewhere at the same time. Looking for issues where there are none irritates people and encourages them to switch off. There are HUGE HUGE issues to be discussed but banging on about irrelevance hinders participation in such discussions. I do think this contributes to why so many on here dislike the feminist tag whilst apparently holding primarily feminist beliefs.

Abso-fucking-lutely yes

twitter.com/CountDeadWomen

The above twitter account names the UK women killed by men (or where men are the primary suspect in their deaths). 77 women in the first 6 months of 2017, all ages, races, cultures and backgrounds. I can't read it without feeling that there is something very wrong with our society.

." However the OP did not even have the good grace to return to the thread and acknowledge this despite posting frequently elsewhere at the same time."

If I remember correctly, that was because I didn't agree. Why would I acknowledge something I didn't think was right?

I also worry about the tendency of some to try and find feminist issues where they don't exist. A good example is a thread where the OP tried to make the point that Tim Peake had been more lauded than Helen Sherman because he is a man. Several pages of posters pointed out that HS was equally ubiquitous as TP, as far as it was possibly to be at the time (no social media, rolling news etc).

Is it really such a terrible thing to raise an issue and then with facts and statistics be proven wrong? Sometimes people have ideas they want to discuss because it suddenly occurs to them, sometimes this idea turns out to be wrong. No harm done. Its surely better to raise possible issues and explore them than to not say anything in case your proven to be 'making an issue out of nothing'. Sometimes it won't be nothing.

My DH and boys call themselves feminists. It's not up to me to decide whether they are 'worthy' of the name because they are male and I'm female, it is their actions that define who they are.

but my current surname is my dad's surname so what difference does it make

I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent so apologies but I don't understand why a woman's surname is deemed her father's but a man's is just his

A tangent worth taking. Never understood and never will understand this very odd idea that a woman doesn't own her name.

Or that is always oddly her surname which is so terrible (someone I used to work with was Mrs Smellie, still pondering what was worse than that)