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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have said she's raising psychopaths.

568 replies

OohMavis · 05/08/2017 19:22

My friend and I have fallen out.

She has zero empathy for any type of animal or living thing other than herself and her children, basically. I find that utterly baffling and quite upsetting, and I don't think I'm unreasonable in that respect, but I might have overstepped a mark a bit by saying this, and I want some opinions.

She was here yesterday with her two children so our children could play together. They were playing in the garden, we were sitting out with them, chatting. DD came running to me, excited, saying she'd found a really big beetle, asking for me to come and see. She's 3 and obsessed with mini beasts. My friend's children overheard and came to see too. They ran ahead of me and my friend followed behind, by the time we'd arrived her son had STOMPED on this beautiful stag beetle (I think) and killed it Angry

DD was so fucking upset. Honestly, it was just such an unecessary thing to do. The kid is 7. It's inexcusable. I reacted, raised my voice a bit and said "Why did you do that?!" he just laughed and said he wanted to stand on it. I said that's a really nasty thing to do. Then bent down to see if he'd 'popped its head off'. He had, he was quite pleased with himself. His mother said nothing, I looked at her for a response and got a half-shrug.

DD was in tears by this point so I took her back to where we were sitting and friend joined me. I was comforting DD. She said, "I think they get it from me, they just don't like animals"
I replied, "well that's fine but they shouldn't kill them"
"Well it's not like it was a cat or something"
And this is where I got a bit angry and said "yes well it starts off that way doesn't it, with that attitude you're raising two psycopaths"

She was obviously offended. Sat there for twenty more minutes with a look on her face before making an excuse and leaving, awkwardly. Got a text later saying she thought I was completely out of order calling her kids psycopaths, kids step on insects and I'm overreacting. I didn't reply. She texted again telling me I'm a hypocrite since I'm not even vegetarian Hmm and she doesn't think she'll be coming again.

WIBU to mention the word psychopath. I was angry, it may have been over the top, but I still think it.

OP posts:
hayli · 05/08/2017 22:02

Ps would ur friend have minded if you reasonbly explained to her son it wasnt right what he did ?
Its always worth a shot eveb if you think hes never going to listen to what i say..you never know.

Timefortea99 · 05/08/2017 22:03

At least your kids don't get to hang out with her kids anymore. A result.

pictish · 05/08/2017 22:03

"Have you got any boys? OMG"

Two...and neither of them would do that. Not because they're as pure as the driven snow or anything...they're just not into smashing little creatures for the sake of it. Do your boys do that? Tell them not to...it unnecessary and not very nice.

StrangeLookingParasite · 05/08/2017 22:04

But how many of you have squashed an insect ?

You really, really can't see the difference between the pleasure this kid took in killing, and the gruesome desire to see the damage he'd done, and someone killing a mosquito?

Seriously?

AmysTiara · 05/08/2017 22:05

Yes I'm the same as Pictish. 2 boys here who have not done anything like that.

I think Atom needs to explain what she meant by that comment

Lucysky2017 · 05/08/2017 22:07

What about head lice then and how to people distinguish them from the precious spiders they would never kill?

Mittens1969 · 05/08/2017 22:13

Obviously there are a lot of kids (not just boys) who don't grow out of this kind of behaviour and I'm not talking about psychopathic murderers. They graduate to hunting foxes with dogs, and enjoying the killing.

RiverTam · 05/08/2017 22:13

Lucky spiders do you no harm and in fact consume enormous amounts of flies so are very beneficial to our lives. Head lice (not that we've had to deal with them) I don't think are beneficial to anyone, are they?

I think you are being a little disengenuous with your arguments, tbh.

StrangeLookingParasite · 05/08/2017 22:15

What about head lice then and how to people distinguish them from the precious spiders they would never kill?

What about head lice?

Let's see, one's a parasitic, contagious infestation that causes blood loss, the other was a single insect, minding its own business, harming no-one. Which one of these is actually affecting anyone?
Honestly, obtuse much?

StrangeLookingParasite · 05/08/2017 22:15

RiverTam is quicker than me!

llangennith · 05/08/2017 22:16

She and her kids sound awful but maybe the word psychopaths was a bit strong!

WhooooAmI24601 · 05/08/2017 22:17

Bloody hell, a little boy killing an insect, and you call him a psychopath? Have you got any boys? OMG

Two boys here and neither of them (11 and 6 years old) kills anything for shits and giggles because they've been raised to respect animals. Having a penis doesn't automatically entitle anyone to kill animals for a laugh. Excusing it doesn't make it any less awful - just teach children to be kind to everything. That kindness will last them a lifetime; mine are total wallies and fools but they're also the kindest children I could have hoped to raise.

Fresh8008 · 05/08/2017 22:19

Head lice ... I don't think are beneficial to anyone, are they?
And what use are stag beetles to us? Or are we using the argument that its ok to kill creatures that are useful to us but not those that are. Or is it the argument that its ok to kill ugly insets but trending ones are sacrosanct?

pictish · 05/08/2017 22:19

Personally in the context this took place, I think the lad was badly behaved and ill-mannered. The little girl called her mum over to see it as she was obviously taken by it and the lad responded by stamping on it? Little rotter. And his mum stood by and passively shrugged it off. I can see where OP was coming from but that comment was never going to be well received...even if she has a point. Psychopath is such a loaded term.

RiverTam · 05/08/2017 22:24

Fresh do stag beetles do us any harm? I really don't think you can compare a stag beetle or spider to a parasitical biting insect that does do you harm.

Again, a disengenuous argument that does you no credit unless you actually think this child did no harm by his actions.

TheDayIBroke · 05/08/2017 22:25

A totally reasonable restrained reaction from you OP. The ex-friend's lack of empathy and care for anything in nature is concerning. I wholeheartedly agree that she could well be on the way to raising uncaring, unfeeling children, if not psychopaths. The fact they have a cat in the house is worrying, too. I wouldn't bother with the friendship as you both have different values or (her) lack of.

In my youth, there were two brothers around the same age as me. They were awful boys, loved to hurt things, break things and their first reaction to seeing any small living thing - be it bug, bird or reptile - was "kill it". Then, one day, one of the brothers saw a small animal and decided to try out a new method of killing it. It worked, but it also killed him too. The other brother has not turned out too well either, from all accounts. They were graduating from insects to small birds to small mammals and so it went on. The sick pair of them really were horrid and had zero feeling for living things.

DJBaggySmalls · 05/08/2017 22:31

Theres something wrong with your ex friend, and she has taught her children that cruelty is fun. She has done them no favours.

WhoreOfBabyliss · 05/08/2017 22:31

We had a kid at primary school that did stuff like this and he turned out very....ahem...odd. Psychopath is about right IMHO.

Fresh8008 · 05/08/2017 22:31

I really don't think you can compare a stag beetle or spider to a parasitical biting insect that does do you harm

I was making the point of, 'how do you determine what creatures is it ok to kill'. I already said I think it was abhorrent but society thinks different. Insects, arachnids, mammals and fish are killed ever day by pretty much the majority of the worlds population. For food , for pleasure and for comfort. I was pointing out the hypocrisy.

hmcAsWas · 05/08/2017 22:32

YABU - psychopath is very inflammatory. You should have made your (very valid) point in a much calmer way - in a way that might have made your friend question her approach rather than totally alienate her.

frieda909 · 05/08/2017 22:33

Calling her kids psychopaths probably wasn't the best move, but I don't blame you tbh. I can't stand watching kids deliberately and gleefully kill insects. I feel the same way about kids who kick and chase pigeons. And when it happens it's up to the parents to tell the kids that it's wrong to do that.

And no, I'm not a veggie. I just had steak for dinner, in fact. But I still don't condone being cruel to any living thing for no other reason than your own amusement.

Plus there's the fact that your little girl was so excited about the beetle. He deliberately destroyed something he knew someone else was enjoying. Even if you take the cruelty to the insect out of the equation, I think that alone would merit a telling off.

StrangeLookingParasite · 05/08/2017 22:39

I was making the point of, 'how do you determine what creatures is it ok to kill'. I already said I think it was abhorrent but society thinks different. Insects, arachnids, mammals and fish are killed ever day by pretty much the majority of the worlds population. For food , for pleasure and for comfort. I was pointing out the hypocrisy.

It isn't hypocrisy, it's whataboutery. And it's just irrelevant.

Gwenhwyfar · 05/08/2017 22:43

"It's ok to squash a mosquito or wash a spider down the sink, but not to stomp on a ladybird. "

I wouldn't kill a spider, but I get your point. I've had an infestation of fruit flies and I kill them because they're a pest. However, through most of my life I haven't had to kill any insects and as I was killing these things today I started to worry that I'd get blase about it and become one of those people who kill any flies they see for no reason.

RiverTam · 05/08/2017 22:43

Fresh well, I think this thread makes it clear that society doesnt think differently - the majority on here think the child was very cruel to do this. What they might think 1000 miles away is neither here nor there, surely. It is not hypocritical to say that this child did something very wrong whilst simultaneously treating your child's head lice. I don't believe you can't see the difference.

CatsRidingRollercoasters · 05/08/2017 22:43

I think you were very unwise to use the word 'psychopath' about a child to their parent because that's clearly never going to go down well.

However I completely agree with you. It's awful that he killed a creature for pleasure, especially because he knew that your 3yo was excited to have found the creature. It's like he wanted to exert power by causing suffering and sadness.

On the face of it you're probably better off out of this friendship...