to have said she's raising psychopaths.

[OohMavis]

My friend and I have fallen out.

She has zero empathy for any type of animal or living thing other than herself and her children, basically. I find that utterly baffling and quite upsetting, and I don't think I'm unreasonable in that respect, but I might have overstepped a mark a bit by saying this, and I want some opinions.

She was here yesterday with her two children so our children could play together. They were playing in the garden, we were sitting out with them, chatting. DD came running to me, excited, saying she'd found a really big beetle, asking for me to come and see. She's 3 and obsessed with mini beasts. My friend's children overheard and came to see too. They ran ahead of me and my friend followed behind, by the time we'd arrived her son had STOMPED on this beautiful stag beetle (I think) and killed it

DD was so fucking upset. Honestly, it was just such an unecessary thing to do. The kid is 7. It's inexcusable. I reacted, raised my voice a bit and said "Why did you do that?!" he just laughed and said he wanted to stand on it. I said that's a really nasty thing to do. Then bent down to see if he'd 'popped its head off'. He had, he was quite pleased with himself. His mother said nothing, I looked at her for a response and got a half-shrug.

DD was in tears by this point so I took her back to where we were sitting and friend joined me. I was comforting DD. She said, "I think they get it from me, they just don't like animals"
I replied, "well that's fine but they shouldn't kill them"
"Well it's not like it was a cat or something"
And this is where I got a bit angry and said "yes well it starts off that way doesn't it, with that attitude you're raising two psycopaths"

She was obviously offended. Sat there for twenty more minutes with a look on her face before making an excuse and leaving, awkwardly. Got a text later saying she thought I was completely out of order calling her kids psycopaths, kids step on insects and I'm overreacting. I didn't reply. She texted again telling me I'm a hypocrite since I'm not even vegetarian and she doesn't think she'll be coming again.

WIBU to mention the word psychopath. I was angry, it may have been over the top, but I still think it.

Hahaha yes - huge alien type beetles were the least of your worries in terms of what can come in a ground floor window in Brixton! Did your oh not see them? How could he not?

OP I think you were spot on in your reaction. What a supremely fucked up family.
I remember being in a beer garden once and tearing some kids and their asshat parents off a strip for stamping on snails and laughing.
I don't even let my DS whose 3 chase birds, I find it utterly repulsive and it does set them up to think that terrifying and killing small animals is ok.

YANBU. She should raise her kids to not take pleasure in killing creatures. There is a word for that...oh yes, it was used, the the right context. Can't get worked up about what you said OP.

I have a cousin who took pleasure in the pain of an animal as a child, I was horrified when he told me and whilst it was something (the animal) I don't like, I couldn't have done what he did. He laughed and thought it was great. Now as an adult he has an unhealthy hatred for a certain person and has stated what he would love to do to this person (not to me, I haven't seen him for years). I do believe he'll be on the news one day.

Stag beetles live in south east England. There's a lot of 'country' in the UK where they're not present.

Oh and it's certainly not a child OR a boy thing . When my DS was younger and I had a pram, I had to weave the pram all over the place to avoid all the slugs and snails he pointed out to me and insisted I miss (bloody hard work up a steep hill!)

I'm a vegetarian and very, very rarely kill any living thing on purpose (the exceptions being head lice and that one wasp that was inside my sleeping bag at the same time I was...). I think the 'psychopath' comment was OTT, especially as the OP says 'raising two psychopaths' rather than limiting it to the particular behaviour of the 7-year-old.

What her son did was unkind and spiteful, and she should have said something to him, but your reaction when she didn't isn't the sort of thing I can imagine saying to someone I considered a friend. So yes, YABU, although that doesn't excuse what her son did either.

YANBU she sounds like a whispers Bad Parent.

Bloody hell, a little boy killing an insect, and you call him a psychopath? Have you got any boys? OMG

I have a boy and he would never, never do something like this. I would be reluctant to even tell him about this, since he would hate even hearing about it.
I hate this idea that boys are all rough savages who like killing things.

I would be happy to come to your house, and I think you're well shot of her, and her children. Ugh.

For me the issue is that your friend's DC took pleasure in upsetting your DD, who was enthralled by the beetle. That was bullying, without a doubt. My DDs would have been severely told off for doing that.

I do think the word psychopath was a bit strong, though. I don't think a child stepping on a beetle is the first towards becoming a psychopath. After all, we swat wasps and flies, so it's difficult to explain the difference.

I remember having a disagreement with a therapist I was seeing a few years ago. She wouldn't let me swat a wasp that was half dead, insisted on putting it out of the room we were in.

I couldn't take her seriously after that. For one thing, I'm terrified of wasps. But it was half dead! If that's wrong, then vets are wrong to put pets down.

But in this case, it's the way the DC clearly enjoyed the process of killing the beetle that's unpleasant, and the bullying. Your friend should have disciplined him for that. They were at your house.

It's getting rather difficult as people are very different on this issue. I was sayign to my son the other day who I think is far too extreme in not hurting insects -well what you do with all the spiders that come in the hosue then? No o ne other than me cleans. Do they want spiders' webs across very room so we cannot move across the room without getting them in our faces? A slug comes into the kitchen most days. I remove it. Do they want slugs all over the kitchen? Shoudl we bring them in as pests?

Do they want flies laying eggs in the food bin? Will maggots be our new pets? I don't go out of my way to cause insects suffering but I don't hesitate to kill them if they are in the house. If I didn't they would take over.

Also which insects do people think we need to be more caerful of? What about biting insects? Bill Gates is trying to rid the planet of malaria. Is he a killer for doing that? Should we say the mosquito is just as valuable to the planet perhaps more so than humans?

christ. YANBU. that's exactly how you spot a psychopath. who wants friends like that. good rid.

He's 7. It's something most 7 year olds do when they don't know better. You should have taken the opportunity to educate the child not call him names. All you've done OP is show your daughter that instead of challenging behaviour in meaningful ways she should call people names instead.

I was going to ask where does she draw the line on her sliding scale of acceptable senseless killing of creatures from cat to beetle but seeing as she's happy to let her cat kill a pigeon (that was someone's pet as well) when she could have intervened I don't think I'd be certain guinea pigs etc would be safe around her either.

Safer to part ways I think unfortunately the same can't be said for anything smaller than a cat

I didn't call him a psychopath, for the record. I told his mother that with an attitude such as hers she was in danger of raising one.

A small difference, maybe, but I didn't call him names.

It's also shocking, the way she let the cat torture the pigeon for an hour. I have 4 cats but I would have intervened to rescue the pigeon. That was very disrespectful to the neighbour as well. I would have been mortified.

Yes your comment was probably a bit OTT, but TBH I would have said it too! With a bit of luck she might think of it next time he's murdering something. She probably won't because she sounds a cold heartless woman with horrible children. Not my kind of friend, you're well rid.

And I'm a veggie, but I never quite get the logic of "if you eat meat you can't say anything" or "if you wear leather you shouldn't be a veggie" etc. It's not a competition! Making a stand about something is better than doing nothing about everything, it's a start. Yes factory farming and abattoirs are more cruel than a Beatle getting swiftly stamped on, but it still doesn't make it right that a little brat knowingly did it to kill something and see if it's head popped off (sounds like a sick thing he's done before, probably been shown by his weirdo parents).

You said the right thing. The little shit sounds horrid and so does your friend. If it were me, I would cut her loose. The cat with the pigeon and them watching through the window is sick. Mine when they were young have never intentionally hurt any living thing, from a tiny fly upwards. Because I brought them up to respect all living things.

I cant believe that anyone on here would label a 7 year old boy a psychopath on the basis of this 1 incident. If a friend had said this to me about my boy at that age on the basis that he stood on a beetle and upset my daughter I would have been furious.
That's not to say it wasn't an unpleasant incident and if Id been the mum I would have spoken to my boy about what had happened and about how he had upset your dd.
But how many of you have squashed an insect ?
I am prepared to be flamed for my response. I do think your friend and her ds were in the wrong. But I think a label of psychopath needs to be based on way more evidence of this and is very derogatory.

Sounds like the same woman I have made a thread about .... awful woman .

I for one would like Atom to come back and explain her 'boys' comment, because what I'm taking from it is pretty disgusting. Do tell us exactly what you meant by that, atom.

Lucky other than mosquitos, I don't kill any insects that come in the house. Spiders get removed with glass and card (or by hand by DH, uurrgghhh), flies and wasps a window is opened, slugs dumped back in the garden. I only kill mossies because they bite me to death.

OP, you were quite right. To watch, to allow your child to be so cruel to an (endangered) insect and nasty to a younger child, is almost unbelievable. I wouldn't have any of them back in the house. Couldn't care less if she thinks your were OTT, she seriously failed her DS. The pigeon thing is also vile.

What you did wrong here is calling the children phsycopath. You should have called her that for the way she thinks and is raising her children that way. Our children learn from us.
Just as your dc have learnt not to do behave in such a manner becuase you taught likewise the other dc.
Thats their norm.
Its just utterly nasty to have spoken about the kids like that. They are only picking up what they learn.

Mavis, don't associate with them anymore, they're not your kind of people, and you can't change their views. What you said was true, move on from it, let's hope it rankles with them somehow.
I'm sorry your child was upset.

I had a similar experience when my DCs were small. A friend's child stamping on a beetle. (His mother was not there). My DCs were upset. I sat the child down and told them to imagine that a giant came along and stamped on them. Would that be OK just because he could?

To his credit he said he hadn't thought of it like that. I then explained that although insects are not big and couldn't think, they had a life and it was the only one they had - we should all think very hard before we deprive them of it.

He didn't say much but a couple of days later the came to me and said he had thought a lot a about it and he would never do it again. Of course, he could have been having me on, but I don't think so.

But as for the boy OP I feel sorry for him. What chance does he have with a mother like that?

Firstly I think such behavior was abhorrent. The correct respond is not to be friends with such people anymore. The use of the word 'psychopath' was OTT and wrong.

But I also think you are a hypocrite. To say such behavior is wrong and have your child upset by it then in the next breath sit down to chomp on a baby lamb, or calf, or, snail, frogs legs, fish eggs, beetle or any other other living creature makes you a hypocrite. Would you ever show your DC what really happens to the food they eat?