to have said she's raising psychopaths.

[OohMavis]

My friend and I have fallen out.

She has zero empathy for any type of animal or living thing other than herself and her children, basically. I find that utterly baffling and quite upsetting, and I don't think I'm unreasonable in that respect, but I might have overstepped a mark a bit by saying this, and I want some opinions.

She was here yesterday with her two children so our children could play together. They were playing in the garden, we were sitting out with them, chatting. DD came running to me, excited, saying she'd found a really big beetle, asking for me to come and see. She's 3 and obsessed with mini beasts. My friend's children overheard and came to see too. They ran ahead of me and my friend followed behind, by the time we'd arrived her son had STOMPED on this beautiful stag beetle (I think) and killed it

DD was so fucking upset. Honestly, it was just such an unecessary thing to do. The kid is 7. It's inexcusable. I reacted, raised my voice a bit and said "Why did you do that?!" he just laughed and said he wanted to stand on it. I said that's a really nasty thing to do. Then bent down to see if he'd 'popped its head off'. He had, he was quite pleased with himself. His mother said nothing, I looked at her for a response and got a half-shrug.

DD was in tears by this point so I took her back to where we were sitting and friend joined me. I was comforting DD. She said, "I think they get it from me, they just don't like animals"
I replied, "well that's fine but they shouldn't kill them"
"Well it's not like it was a cat or something"
And this is where I got a bit angry and said "yes well it starts off that way doesn't it, with that attitude you're raising two psycopaths"

She was obviously offended. Sat there for twenty more minutes with a look on her face before making an excuse and leaving, awkwardly. Got a text later saying she thought I was completely out of order calling her kids psycopaths, kids step on insects and I'm overreacting. I didn't reply. She texted again telling me I'm a hypocrite since I'm not even vegetarian and she doesn't think she'll be coming again.

WIBU to mention the word psychopath. I was angry, it may have been over the top, but I still think it.

I'm with you. Regardless if it was "just a bug" or whatever her opinion is your daughter was finding joy in it and her son killed it right in front of her that's pretty traumatic for a three year old. My 2yr old son loves all creatures and we love investigating insects I'd be absolutely gutted if he just killed something for the sake of it and would be slightly worried about the lack of empathy. His dad is really not keen on animals but I don't think even he would have just shrugged that off.

You are not a hypocrite because you eat meat either, did he eat the fecking beetle?? No he killed it for his own enjoyment for no other purpose than to snuff out its wee life and upset your dd. Well rid I think.

FFS it was a beetle!

It was a protected species.

Not just a beetle

It was a living creature and, if a stag beetle, a protected species.

Oh my goodness this thread has all the crazy opinions.

OP you are not being unreasonable, I probably would have said something similar, psychopath is a rash word, but you said it in the heat of the moment and hindsight is an amazing thing.

As for all the crazy vegans on this thread drawing comparisons between taking pleasure out of stamping on an insect and upsetting a younger child, and eating meat, are you on drugs?

I eat meat, we raise sheep, we take them to be slaughtered and we fill the freezer, its all very humane, and when the kids are old enough to understand they will experience it to. I am also an animal lever, I rescue animals, should I stop doing that as I'm a hypocrite and eat meat?

Quite a lot of vegans have come on here to say that they don't equate eating meat with what this child did. There's just one GF poster who keeps harping on this point, really.

Apologies river, I thought I saw a few posts, didn't realise they were all from the same one.

The boys will be boys crap was infuriating me too much!

So you only have the right to say you care about animals if you are vegan?
I guess by that definition, you can't truly care about children unless you're a parent? What bollocks.

I really don't like dogs. They smell, they drool, lick their own and each others arses, destroy houses, make too much noise and will happily eat vomit and feces given half a chance.
But I'd be the first to step in if I saw one being hurt, as like every other normal human being- I have empathy for living creatures, even if they aren't my particular cup of tea.

Anyone who gets satisfaction out of inflicting pain and causing the death of an animal is someone to run a fucking mile from.
Very rarely does an adult just wake up one day and decide to torture and kill another person...they work their way up by practicing on smaller prey first.

We used to have a pond in the park near us as children. A boy who lived on my street used to fish the frogs out of the pond just to stamp on them. Last time I read about him, he was in prison for attacking his young girlfriend while she had hold of their infant child.

I think it's a total over reaction on your part... you sound a bit soft. It's a nice quality but can be frustrating for people not that way inclined. I don't like insects in my house - I'll shoo them out if I can but often I kill them. No it's not a "nice" thing to do but I don't lose sleep over it and I don't have any other "psychopathic" tendencies . I think you're personalities clash and so the friendship is probably best left to slide. I feel sorry for your DD, she sounds like a sweet child.

You were way ott using the psych word. Unkind too.

Two wrongs don't..... yada yada.

However, for her to see how upset your daughter was and to say nothing to her child is odd. Detached. Lacking in emotional intelligence and understanding.

I wouldn't want to see her again if I were you.

Actually astonished that people can't join the dots between allowing boys more leeway to be violent and hurt animals for fun and men being more likely to commit violent crime and fail to respect living things including women.

Children learn almost everything about what is good/bad, accepted/unacceptable from the way their parents respond to things they do. No reaction to ripping up animals for fun? Noted. No reaction to pushing a kid over? Noted.

You will be at great risk of raising and entitled nobhead of a man if you do not tell your boys that their violent behaviour is unacceptable.

The way adults treat babies based on their their sex, has had quite a few studies done. We start boys and girls off on different paths right from word go.

Expectations of ability and behaviour is often a self for filling prophesy. Most of the time people don't even realise they are doing it.

This is one study on infants crawling and the mothers expectations and reactions.

scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=gender+bias+in+mothers%27+expectations+about+infant+crawling&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjb6YP4k8XVAhXRY1AKHRJwD2MQgQMICTAA

Other studies have observed people interacting with babies.

You were absolutely right. Good on you for standing up to her and her vile children!

There are plenty of adult psychopaths out there who come from seemingly 'normal' families. It all begins somewhere and studies show that as children they nearly always have a lack of respect for animals and living things....

Well, I don't think she can turn her children into psychopaths, as part of it is usually genetic, but if her son has inherited her genetic lack of empathy, her not setting him any boundaries certainly doesn't help!

YANBU, one can debate whether psychopath is the right word for it, but she's certainly raising her children to be rather annoying at best, and criminal at worst.

Killing an animal that made your daughter happy doesn't just show disrespect for animals, it also shows disrespect for other people!

And it is a difference whether someone kills an insect out of fear (though I do not approve of killing harmless spiders), or out of sheer sadism.

I find the latter much more worrying.

thewitch that study makes my blood boil....and also give the evil eye to anyone telling me I shouldn't let my DD climb trees.

psychopath
/ˈsaɪkəʊˌpæθ/
noun
1.
a person afflicted with a personality disorder characterized by a tendency to commit antisocial and sometimes violent acts and a failure to feel guilt for such acts Also called sociopath

Seems pretty appropriate to me.

NO you're absolutely right and it was not too strongly worded. Why is this fucking cretin even your friend?

There is something wrong with not feeling empathy for a living creature - even a bug - and not teaching your children about kindness towards other creatures will certainly turn them into nasty little psychopaths.

You can totally judge a person by whether they like animals and the ones that don't are best avoided.

Actually I'd be temptedto sit heavily on the child to ask how it feels but you can at least ask them how they think the bug feels to violently killed. I actually feel sick thinking about it

imo 'psychopath' is an extremely harsh word to use on a 7 year old for the act... yes ,the mom could have stepped in , but we all have our days and sometimes prefer to let things go. i think u over reacted here

The fact that he bent down to check that he has 'popped it's head off' would ring warning bells for me - he's done that before - obviously with his mother not trying to stop the behaviour or explain to him why it's wrong. Basically, they are an intolerant, unkind family and you are not BU!

you are raising a caring child.its proven kids who start off hurting insects in such a cruel and evil way go on to hurt animals and humans, so yes of course they are psychopaths in the making!! They sound like the sort of kids us normal parents try to make sure our own kids never play with. never speaking to her again is a blessing!

I actually love that you called her kids psychopaths!! They, and their mother sound awful, and these days people try to be so p.c and non-confrontational...its so frustrating. I like that you just came out with it, and if I were you I would give zero fucks about hurting her feelings. If it bothers her that much then obviously you hit a nerve. Big high five to you and your lovely daughter. ✋✋✋

YANBU. I wouldn't want my children spending time with people like this to be honest. It's not really about whether you're vegetarian or not, it's about whether you treat living things with respect. And it can definitely be a precursor to violence towards human beings, for obvious reasons. Hopefully your comment will make her think.

You're better off without them. I wouldn't want them around my children. And yes, needless cruelty to animals is one of the early pointers to psychopathy. It doesn't mean they will turn into psychopaths but it's behaviour that warrants concern.