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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have said she's raising psychopaths.

568 replies

OohMavis · 05/08/2017 19:22

My friend and I have fallen out.

She has zero empathy for any type of animal or living thing other than herself and her children, basically. I find that utterly baffling and quite upsetting, and I don't think I'm unreasonable in that respect, but I might have overstepped a mark a bit by saying this, and I want some opinions.

She was here yesterday with her two children so our children could play together. They were playing in the garden, we were sitting out with them, chatting. DD came running to me, excited, saying she'd found a really big beetle, asking for me to come and see. She's 3 and obsessed with mini beasts. My friend's children overheard and came to see too. They ran ahead of me and my friend followed behind, by the time we'd arrived her son had STOMPED on this beautiful stag beetle (I think) and killed it Angry

DD was so fucking upset. Honestly, it was just such an unecessary thing to do. The kid is 7. It's inexcusable. I reacted, raised my voice a bit and said "Why did you do that?!" he just laughed and said he wanted to stand on it. I said that's a really nasty thing to do. Then bent down to see if he'd 'popped its head off'. He had, he was quite pleased with himself. His mother said nothing, I looked at her for a response and got a half-shrug.

DD was in tears by this point so I took her back to where we were sitting and friend joined me. I was comforting DD. She said, "I think they get it from me, they just don't like animals"
I replied, "well that's fine but they shouldn't kill them"
"Well it's not like it was a cat or something"
And this is where I got a bit angry and said "yes well it starts off that way doesn't it, with that attitude you're raising two psycopaths"

She was obviously offended. Sat there for twenty more minutes with a look on her face before making an excuse and leaving, awkwardly. Got a text later saying she thought I was completely out of order calling her kids psycopaths, kids step on insects and I'm overreacting. I didn't reply. She texted again telling me I'm a hypocrite since I'm not even vegetarian Hmm and she doesn't think she'll be coming again.

WIBU to mention the word psychopath. I was angry, it may have been over the top, but I still think it.

OP posts:
hayli · 06/08/2017 16:31

I won't be apologising, just wanted to know if IWBU to use that word in the heat of the moment.
Yes

ringle · 06/08/2017 16:42

"I didn't call him a psychopath, for the record. I told his mother that with an attitude such as hers she was in danger of raising one.

A small difference, maybe, but I didn't call him names."

What you said was worse. You have told another mother that she is turning her child into a monster. It's kind of hard to think of anything worse you could say to another mother.

So I would apologise. Humbly.

YouTheCat · 06/08/2017 16:50

She is in danger of producing little psychopaths though. If their behaviour goes unchecked and uncorrected, then that is exactly what you will get.

Would any of us want our daughters to grow up and go out with these kids? Can you imagine how they will treat future spouses?

Fresh8008 · 06/08/2017 16:53

We dont actually know the young boy did this for fun or just to annoy the young girl. What we do know is that plenty of adults go out of their way to kill bugs and insects on the street, in their home and in their garden. We also know that the majority of people dont become psychopaths because of squashing a bug when they were 7.

So the appropriate response is to inform the young boy that we have arbitrarily decided some bugs are ok to kill and why, in our culture, and which are frowned upon and why. Normally a task for the parents, but if the parents have a different opinion on this that you dont like, then just stop being friends with them. Seems all the boy has learnt in this case is that he has the power to enrage an adult.

Some beetles are pests and some stag beetles can give a painful bite.

ringle · 06/08/2017 16:59

Psychopathy is, as I understand it, considered to be something innate rather than a result of sloppy play date etiquette.

The mum hasn't exactly sent him off to be a child soldier in Rwanda....

It's pretty unforgivable not to apologise for this most extreme of insults.

Mittens1969 · 06/08/2017 17:29

I think the OP was already repulsed by the mum allowing the cat to torture one of her neighbour's pigeons, with the boy watching. So I'm not surprised she came out with that line. And her DD was very distressed, the mum didn't care at all.

Mumzypopz · 06/08/2017 17:35

Officer...I can assure you I am neither backwards or sexist. You however have jumped to conclusions because you don't like other people's opinions...and that is suggestive of someone who is ignorant. I think you have made a massive jump from talking about young boys type of play to them being rapists or violent adults. I do understand the nature versus nurture argument, however I do wonder if some parents try to take too much nature out of normal boyish behaviour. Taking too much out and forcing them to act in a particular way may also cause problems in later life. Boys are different. They should be able to run through woods screaming and shouting and running free. They should be able to climb trees and let their imagination run a little wild. That boy who stamped on the beetle will more than likely end up a well rounded individual.

Sallystyle · 06/08/2017 17:37

I have three boys and they do not step on insects. They may have done once as toddlers but that would have been it. I have no idea why some people think boys are more likely to do it than girls? Are boys built with some gene that makes them more prone to wanting to stamp on beetles or something?

OP your friend is vile. The child did it with glee and to purposefully upset your child. That is extremely concerning. My friend's toddler (a girl as it happens!) stood on an ant the other week when I was with her and I told her why it was wrong to do that. If her mum had thought it was ok for her to keep doing it then I would have looked at her very differently.

There is a girl in my neighbourhood who was hurting snails. I will save you the details because it still makes me sick to my stomach. I told the girl to stop it (she is 10 years old) and knocked for her mum. Her mum basically told me to fuck off because she didn't care that her child was torturing snails, and I don't use the word torture lightly. Sociopath in the making.

So no OP, YANBU.

DonaldStott · 06/08/2017 17:39

I do wonder if some parents try to take too much nature out of normal boyish behaviour. Taking too much out and forcing them to act in a particular way may also cause problems in later life. Boys are different. They should be able to run through woods screaming and shouting and running free. They should be able to climb trees and let their imagination run a little wild.

What a complete and utter pile of sexist bullshit.

ringle · 06/08/2017 17:41

The dislike of kids squashing insects is a very recent phenomenon.

MoonfaceAndSilky · 06/08/2017 17:44

People say "especially boys"... because generally boys do stuff like that, it's in their nature. I walked down the street with my son once we went past one of those swingy metal signs and he kicked it.
Yes, boys kick things, use sticks as weapons, climb on everything etc etc but they don't kill things just because they are a boy. I have 3 boys and they have never stomped on a living creature. Pretty sure my db never did either and he was the most rough boisterous boy you could imagine. It is not a 'boy' thing, it is a 'disrespectful scum' thing.

LittleLionMansMummy · 06/08/2017 17:45

And her DD was very distressed, the mum didn't care at all

Precisely this. As a mother of a child who is older than the distressed one, she has a duty if nothing else to explain that his behaviour has upset another child, together with why it has upset her. Also, when most children behave in an undesirable way in front of younger children, most parents would take steps to correct that behaviour by explaining that younger children will often imitate their behaviour.

As for 'boys will be boys' I believe there is an element of truth in this, and boys do often play rougher and don't always think through the consequences of their impetuous behaviour. But as the mother of a 6yo boy, that is all the more reason to encourage empathy and should not be used to minimise undesirable behaviour. My 6yo is boisterous, but he doesn't go around killing things and taking pleasure in it. He has a very developed sense of empathy - both for humans and animals. It's just not in him.

Op, at first I thought you overreacted. But having thought about it more and seen many of these responses I don't think you have. This isn't just about the beetle (though that's bad enough). Your little girl was very upset and your friend did nothing to address that.

Mumzypopz · 06/08/2017 17:46

Tell me Donald....what do you think boys should be doing? Sitting inside all the time?

Hygge · 06/08/2017 17:46

It's not in all boy's nature Mumzypopz. Apparently it's in your boy's nature, but I can tell you it's not in my son's nature to deliberately kill something for fun.

My boy likes to run and play and pick stuff up in the woods but he would not deliberately stand on something to kill it for pleasure. And if he saw your boy doing that he'd be horrified. As I said before, he's very respectful and gentle with creatures like this, and you can say it's just boys all you like, but it's not.

pictish · 06/08/2017 17:50

"Boys are different. They should be able to run through woods screaming and shouting and running free. They should be able to climb trees and let their imagination run a little wild."

Err...so should girls? What makes boys so special in this?

Sallystyle · 06/08/2017 17:53

I do wonder if some parents try to take too much nature out of normal boyish behaviour. Taking too much out and forcing them to act in a particular way may also cause problems in later life. Boys are different. They should be able to run through woods screaming and shouting and running free. They should be able to climb trees and let their imagination run a little wild

What the actual fuck am I reading?

My boys and girls do climb trees. They also run through the woods. You really think boys need to do that more than girls do?

What has that got to do with killing things?

And you are calling someone else ignorant?

Liiinoo · 06/08/2017 17:54

I think the child was horrible and the mum has some strange ideas but seriously, what effect saying what you did might have? It was. Oh dear to be taken badly.

Liiinoo · 06/08/2017 17:56

Sorry, it was BOUND to be taken badly.

Mumzypopz · 06/08/2017 17:57

Pictish.....we aren't talking about girls here. If course they can do the same, but some people on here will tell you they can't.

Sallystyle · 06/08/2017 17:59

tell me Donald....what do you think boys should be doing? Sitting inside all the time?

What the hell are you even talking about?

pictish · 06/08/2017 18:00

I'm failing to see why Mumzy's onus is on boys as well. Surely every child is an individual with specific preferences and needs, regardless of gender?

Societal conditioning has a lot to answer for.

Sallystyle · 06/08/2017 18:00

Pictish.....we aren't talking about girls here. If course they can do the same, but some people on here will tell you they can't.

Huh, I can't think of one poster on MN who would say that girls can't do the same as boys.

What has this got to do with killing bugs though?

ringle · 06/08/2017 18:01

I distinctly remember gathering bugs and putting them in a tin to "study".
When I opened it they were all dead and I remember stifling an odd feeling of excitement and guilt. It was a really strong basic sensation -something to do with power I guess?

I don't think we really have much insight as a society into our wired relationship with animals. But essentially it seems that unimaginable cruelty and extinction is just fine so long as it's not before our eyes (not meaning you or other mum OP)

pictish · 06/08/2017 18:01

To my knowledge, no one on here has ever expressed that girls can't do those things Mumzy.