Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have said she's raising psychopaths.

568 replies

OohMavis · 05/08/2017 19:22

My friend and I have fallen out.

She has zero empathy for any type of animal or living thing other than herself and her children, basically. I find that utterly baffling and quite upsetting, and I don't think I'm unreasonable in that respect, but I might have overstepped a mark a bit by saying this, and I want some opinions.

She was here yesterday with her two children so our children could play together. They were playing in the garden, we were sitting out with them, chatting. DD came running to me, excited, saying she'd found a really big beetle, asking for me to come and see. She's 3 and obsessed with mini beasts. My friend's children overheard and came to see too. They ran ahead of me and my friend followed behind, by the time we'd arrived her son had STOMPED on this beautiful stag beetle (I think) and killed it Angry

DD was so fucking upset. Honestly, it was just such an unecessary thing to do. The kid is 7. It's inexcusable. I reacted, raised my voice a bit and said "Why did you do that?!" he just laughed and said he wanted to stand on it. I said that's a really nasty thing to do. Then bent down to see if he'd 'popped its head off'. He had, he was quite pleased with himself. His mother said nothing, I looked at her for a response and got a half-shrug.

DD was in tears by this point so I took her back to where we were sitting and friend joined me. I was comforting DD. She said, "I think they get it from me, they just don't like animals"
I replied, "well that's fine but they shouldn't kill them"
"Well it's not like it was a cat or something"
And this is where I got a bit angry and said "yes well it starts off that way doesn't it, with that attitude you're raising two psycopaths"

She was obviously offended. Sat there for twenty more minutes with a look on her face before making an excuse and leaving, awkwardly. Got a text later saying she thought I was completely out of order calling her kids psycopaths, kids step on insects and I'm overreacting. I didn't reply. She texted again telling me I'm a hypocrite since I'm not even vegetarian Hmm and she doesn't think she'll be coming again.

WIBU to mention the word psychopath. I was angry, it may have been over the top, but I still think it.

OP posts:
redcarbluecar · 06/08/2017 07:24

I think you were right to express your concern / upset, but when you made a direct judgement on the way she's briniging up her children and used the word 'psychopath' it probably was only going to lead to conflict and unpleasantness. However it doesn't sound as if you particularly like this 'friend' - you say she has zero empathy - is this one in a longer line of things, and are you well rid?

Original poster
OohMavis · 06/08/2017 07:41

Sort your DD was upset however the world doesn't spin solely to keep your DD happy, she's gonna have to learn that people are assholes and don't always do things that she will agree with.

I disagree, she doesn't have to learn to put up with 'assholes', or learn that people will deliberately stomp on her joy. Not like that. She's three.

I won't be apologising, just wanted to know if IWBU to use that word in the heat of the moment.

OP posts:
Original poster
OohMavis · 06/08/2017 07:43

is this one in a longer line of things, and are you well rid?

It is, and I think I am.

OP posts:
Londonyardwork · 06/08/2017 07:55

Its not the ideal thing to say ! Im an animal lover but i do remember using a magnifying glass to set ants on fire as a kid !

Lucysky2017 · 06/08/2017 08:02

Whilst most of us would not make an animal suffer I don't see how kililng a spider in the house (I probably kill one a day by the way at least and I would not be able to earn money to feed the children if I had to add in the time takes to trap every insect in this large house under a glass and take it nicely outside so it can return again within 5 minutes) is any different from killing head lice or indeed putting bacteria down your loo to kill germs,. Where do people draw their lines? Do you sing to the head lice on your children's heads to keep them happy?

BillBrysonsBeard · 06/08/2017 08:05

Psychopath was too far, but yeah she isn't doing a great job at teaching them kindness and empathy. That was a really shitty thing to do especially as your DD was excited about it. 7 is old enough to know better!

There was a huge cricket jumping around in a school playground once, all the kids were following it excited.. As I was coming to see it I just had a feeling it was going to get squished as chances are one of those kids will be like your friends kids, and lo and behold.. He got a right ear bashing from me especially as he had a huge grin on his face! Also 7 yrs old.

Oblomov17 · 06/08/2017 08:17

Oh purlease. Psychopath? For killing a beetle? Totally OTT.

TheWitchAndTrevor · 06/08/2017 08:25

Oh purlease, taking things out of context, makes you look soooooo stupid.

mummytime · 06/08/2017 08:32

YABU for the psychopath label.

BUT Stag Beetles are legally protected and endangered.

user1497357411 · 06/08/2017 08:38

You don't have to be a vegetarian or vegan to respect living things. There is a difference between killing to eat something/to protect your crops and then to kill just for entertainment. It seems to me that the boy killed the bettle to tease OP's DD, as she obviously liked the beetle and that is indeed a psycopathic trait. What next? Will he kill someone's beloved pet cat to tease them? Or is he just in the habit of destroying other childrens' toys to tease them and his mother is so used to it that she can't even be bothered to comment on it anymore? I think it is a good idea for OP to keep her children away from her "friend's" children.

As a child I killed ants more or less for fun, but only after being told they were pests and were undermining our house. I feel bad about it now, even though I understand it was necesarry to kill them. I just don't like that the older children introduced it as fun. I was a bit upset when I, as an adult, I found out that slugs and snails were pests and I had to kill them if they appeared in to large numbers in my garden. I have always found them to be cute. But I do eat meat and I do shake my head at "city people" who don't understand that farmers don't want rabbits and mice in their fields or in their barns.

Gabilan · 06/08/2017 08:38

Where do people draw their lines?

If it's likely to cause me direct harm (even if minimal) I may well kill it, but I don't take pleasure in doing so. If it's blamelessly going about its life I leave it alone.

So I leave spiders alone most of the time. I sometimes vacuum a few up. I don't like doing it but I'd be overrun if I didn't. Blood sucking parasites - mosquitoes, ticks, horseflies, fleas - I kill.

It isn't black and white. It isn't a case of either killing nothing at all or risk being a hypocrite by killing some things and not others. I would kill a fish to eat it but I wouldn't want to stamp on a stag beetle. One I can eat (though it's not absolutely and completely necessary, I'm still eating it). The other is a protected species that I don't want to eat, that is highly unlikely to do me any harm at all. So really, why would I kill it? And yes, I'd be dubious about the behaviour of anyone who took pleasure in killing it, especially if they were also deliberately trying to upset a 3 year old child.

Mumzypopz · 06/08/2017 08:40

Think you were being ridiculous to be honest. To use the word psychopath because her son stepped on a beetle is absolutely ridiculous. Kids step on beetles all the time, especially boys.

IDoDaChaCha · 06/08/2017 08:43

I admire your honesty saying it to her face. You're right, cruelty starts small and then they move onto bigger prey if behaviour is not corrected... Needlessly killing a beetle and finding it amusing is horrible behaviour. I wouldn't want children like that associating with my child. The mother is an idiot and if she allows this to continue it will come back to haunt her. YANBU.

user1492287253 · 06/08/2017 08:48

You shoulnt have said psycopaths.
But you can now ditch the friendship

Blazedandconfused · 06/08/2017 08:49

I don't know where I stand in this.

I don't like things in my house- so DH has used/ uses slug pellets, mousetraps, grabs spiders with tissue and flushes them.

I eat meat.

My reasons for the killing of animals are totally selfish.

DS aged 3, picks up snails if in the middle if pavement, and moves them to the side so they won't get hurt.

I certainly wouldn't tolerate stamping on bugs outdoors- I bought DS a magnifying glass to help develop his interest, and therefore respect, I think.

But, we still use slug pellets and eat meat.

So we're hypocrites.

Original poster
OohMavis · 06/08/2017 08:50

Well the line is certainly drawn before a beetle in the garden minding its own business, that DD was finding such joy in!

I'd squash a nit, a flea, a mosquito. Because those insects could cause harm to me if left alive to use me as a food source. The beetle did nothing to harm him, he just felt like killing it, to see its head pop off.

OP posts:
Original poster
OohMavis · 06/08/2017 08:52

especially boys

Why do people keep saying that?

OP posts:
aaaaargghhhhelpme · 06/08/2017 08:53

Hey op. I think you did the right thing. I'm not sure I'd use the word psychopath as it has too many connotations but what the boy did certainly wasn't normal.

My 3 year old squished an ant. Purely because at that age she had no idea that it was a living animal. It was the first time she'd seen one. We had a talk. now she understands.

Even though I hate spiders - and dd is none too keen either - they aren't killed only evicted, using a cup (or a bloody pint glass in the case of some of the giant ones).

I'm not vegetarian or vegan. But I wouldn't kill something just for the sake of killing.

I'd take issue with saying 'it's what boys do'. It really isn't. And not at that age - 7 is old enough to understand you are killing a living animal. And giving him the benefit of the doubt, even if he didn't understand, his mum should have.

Orangebird69 · 06/08/2017 08:54

Yanbu OP. I think I might love you a little bit. I don't think you should lose too much sleep with your choice of words or that friendship. Lack of compassion like that is a horrid trait in anyone. You and you're children don't need people like that in your life.

frieda909 · 06/08/2017 08:58

It may well be true that lots of kids kill insects all the time, but that's not the point. The point is that when that happens, I'd expect their parents to tell them off, or at the very least explain to them why that wasn't a nice thing to do. If you don't, it sends a message that it's OK to hurt things just for fun, and that's really worrying.

TheWitchAndTrevor · 06/08/2017 09:00

Let's not forget the that it was to spite your 3 year old aswell.

Would the mum have been nonchalant about him taking pleasure in destroying something your dd was excited to show you, before you got anywhere near it, even if it was an inanimate object?

rightwhine · 06/08/2017 09:02

Given that the friendship is definitely over I'd text one last time in order to try to educate them, rather than try to rescue the friendship.

I'd apologise for the psychopath comment but say that you were really upset that there seemed to be such little respect for life and then explain that you weren't calling them actual psychopaths but that raising kids with no empathy... Etc

You've lost nothing but in writing it might make her think a bit more about the consequences of this. It probably won't but it'll get it off your chest.

Tofutti · 06/08/2017 09:04

YANBU. She was BU not to tell him off and explain about killing for fun.

I agree with not texting back. Let her stew.

user1497997754 · 06/08/2017 09:14

You were def right....sounds awful woman and horrible kids....I wouldn't want a friend like that....bravo to you....I would have told them all to leave my house....

Mittens1969 · 06/08/2017 09:17

@LittleBooInABox, the boy stamping on the beetle for fun was totally different from you (or me) swatting wasps. A wasp sting has been known to kill if someone had anaphylactic shock. I had a bad reaction to a wasp sting 3 years ago. I think killing bees isn't on, though, as they're protected.

A lot of people have mentioned mosquitoes, well, I've had malaria when in Africa, and that kills millions every year.

It just isn't a comparison. I stand by my previous comparison with those who love watching dogs maul a fox to death. Just very cruel, and in this case bullying a little girl. If a friend's DS did that to one of my DDs and the friend didn't care, then I wouldn't want her as a friend anymore.