AIBU? IHBU? Are we both BU?

[GigaBite]

I was wondering if PPs could read the following text conversations between XH and me and say which of us are BU? If it is me, could you say how you would handle things differently/what you would say? The exchanges are usually about contact with the DC and maintenance.

Text convo 1:
XH: What the fuck is he doing taking my daughter in to a bookies tell him he doesn't take her again ('him' is my BF)
Me: Don't know what you're talking about. Kids aren't allowed in bookies - over 18s only.
XH: DD says she was in 1
Me: Well that's impossible so she obviously wasn't.
XH: We're was she filling football coupons in then and then going home watching football to see if they won any money
Me: They were allowed to pick a few teams but they never went in a bookies, they didn't fill in football coupons, they didn't watch TV, we just told them their teams hadn't won.
XH: So you encouraging gambling now well done
Me: Oh fuck off being a sanctimonious bastard XH. No, I don't encourage gambling - they didn't know what it was, it was only a one off. You play the lottery don't you? Let them pick the numbers sometimes don't you? Fucking hypocrite! I'd be more concerned about the message your attitude to casual and excessive drinking will do to them as they grow up. Not to mention your relationships with drug and alcohol abusers.

Text convo 2:
Me: It's coming up to the end of November and you still haven't paid me any money back. You also haven't paid for the school photo. I need you to pay me back as well as your half for DD's party ASAP. When can I expect it?
five hours later
XH: I'll sort it I'm taking kids to local town lights switch on and I've booked them in to get there nails done can you make sure they dressed suitable and there hands are clean please
Me: tonight? They're not allowed nail varnish on at school so can you remove it before you bring them back in the morning.
XH: yes
next day
Me: Listen carefully XH. I specifically said to you yesterday that you would need to remove any nail varnish as the girls are not allowed to wear it to school. I don't have time in the mornings along with everything else I have to do to get them to school. You didn't listen. You also (yet again) didn't bath them and their hair is dirty and Dd2 is covered in pen. Time and time again, you are neglecting their basic needs. You are frequently late for picking them up and get here for them so late that I have to give them their evening meal - yet the fact that you have them overnight means that you reduce your child maintenance payments. Dd1 frequently returns home tired and angry which leads me to believe you are putting them to bed late. This is not working for the children. I am letting you know that this is your LAST CHANCE to prove you can look after the children properly. That means turning up on time for them, bathing them, ensuring they go to bed at a reasonable time and paying your fair share of their expenses (including paying me back the money you already owe). If you continue to neglect your responsibilities towards them you will leave no alternative but for us to reexamine your mid week contact which will probably go along with what is standard for the vast majority of other separated parents, ie. you collect them from school once a week and keep them for tea and return them home in time for a bath and bed. Additionally, I have to pay the entertainer for dd2's party on Saturday (your share is £82.50) and your half of the cost of the food, party decorations/plates/party bags/cake which will be in the region of £150 (your share £75). I expect you to pay me this by Sunday at the latest.

Text convo 3:
XH: When am I going to see the kids it's getting behond a joke now
Me: I don't know. They say they don't want to go.
Me: Also, you didn't turn up for them on Boxing Day or Tuesday. (his scheduled contact days)
XH: I couldn't I didn't have a car well there coming it's taking the piss now they won't get a choice when it goes to court why were they at your mums today you knew I was coming to pick them up
Me: Ok, because you can't go anywhere without a car? What about taxis? Actually the courts will take their views into account. I'm not sure why you're blaming me? They don't want to go so short of forcing them kicking and screaming (which i won't do to dd1 the way she is at the moment) then I don't know what you're expecting. You don't give a shit where they are the rest of the time but if you must know, I'm at work today. You know, so I can earn money to feed and clothe them since you don't feel any obligation whatsoever to help with that.
Me: You were meant to come for them at 10. You weren't here by 10 past so I took them to my mum's because I had to work. You didn't even get in touch until 10.45 so you were 45 minutes late. I have to make a plan b whenever you're meant to have them as you're so unreliable.

XH: Why couldn't you drop them at mine then on your way to work
Me: see my message above
XH: I was there at quarter past 10
XH: waiting outside for ages
Me: I messaged you at 10.11. Scroll back and have a look. You messaged at 10.40.
XH: I not arguing all the time u want to see them tomorrow what time you going to work
Me: You think I want to argue? I just want you to be a good dad and someone they are happy to visit. They deserve that but you seem more bothered about point scoring. You haven't given me a penny since May for them. That's 7 months where I've had to provide EVERYTHING for them. You don't know the half of it. You don't have to worry about half the crap I deal with yet you think you're hard done by? I will talk to them about going to yours tomorrow but every time I ask, they say they don't want to. I will let you know.
XH: You don't want to argue but you mind filling kids head slagging me off all the time
Me: Yeah, that's exactly it XH 🙄 Never mind that they are bored shitless at yours, complain to me that you don't take them anywhere, shout all the time, have insufficient clothing for them, don't brush their teeth and tell me all you do is shout, it must be because of me? When are you going to stop make my excuses whenever something in your life goes wrong? There's one common factor to all this and it's YOU.
XH: Change your getting boring now
Me: Wow, I didn't see that response coming a mile off 🙄 I tell you what's boring, having the same fucking conversation with you over and over again yet you ignoring everything I say anyway. Nothing is going to change until you accept some responsibility for the way the girls feel and stop blaming me. That's the reality whether you want to accept it or not.
XH: Just tell me what time I can pick them up in morning

Obviously these are taken completely out of context, but on the face of it, who is BU? Before I get accused of drip feeding, I will explain the context later.

Good advice from Boney

Xpost - and MeanAger too (love the user name) :)

It's not up to you to encourage his relationship with his children. His choice to be a proper father or not. He will probably regret it and blame you but he's an adult and perfectly capable of taking responsibility for seeking and maintaining contact with his children, as many non-resident parents do.

I'm sorry life is so crap for you. But if you let go of any expectations you have of him then it might become slightly less stressful.

I'm sorry you both sound as bad as each other. You need to find a way to co-operate and communicate without so much vitriol and bitterness and swearing! You once liked this guy enough to have more than one child with him! And if you can't rely on him for certain things, don't do them, ie. Don't book expensive party entertainment if you can't be sure he'll help pay

I see you says he rings constantly and won't text or email. Balls to that. His number is blocked unless he has the children with him. Or buy a cheap 9.99 phone and sim and only turn it on as the kids leave the house. Make it clear to him that is what is happening. His option is email. It written and it's calm and you'll check it at a set time everyday

What he does in his free time and with his gf is not your business unless it affects the children when they are with him. If it's illegal you report him to social services and say your concerned about their welfare when they are with him. Let them chase him up.

On contact Day have the children ready to go. If they won't go say in front of them are you sure you don't want to go 'what have you got planned daddy. Ooooo that sounds exciting. ' if they say they still don't want to go then say is there something else you'd rather do with daddy? No ok well I'm sure daddy doesn't mind this time. And then you let them go off and say to dad sorry mate not happening. And after he's left you send an email saying sorry contact didn't happen the reasons the kids gave are this that and the other. If just one child wants to go that's fine. It's not an all or nothing situation btw.

Don't let him drop off early have him do the school run. Why should you fanny around in the morning?

It's reasonable as a co-parent to expect him to only smoke in his garden away from the children while he has them. Put it in an email and link some NHS links on children and smoking.

One long email laying it all out and then leave him to it.

I also suggest practicing your that's nice dear face and statement. When he starts to rent just smile sweetly to yourself and say that's nice dear and walk away safe in the knowledge that the bellend is someone else's problem now

Can you get your DM to do handovers? So if he turns up or doesn't turn up, your DCs are with your DM and your ex doesn't get the chance to snipe at you.
As for the texts, you don't need his approval of your parenting. You don't need to engage or justify. So for conversation A - all you need is 'DCs haven't been in bookies. They're under 18.' End of conversation.
Conversation 2: 'You owe me £xx. I need it by xxx.' End of conversation.
Conversation 3: 'At agreed contact times and dates.' End of conversation.
Have you tried counselling on your own? It might help you to disengage and become more calm and assertive when dealing with him.

Well said Hissy.
I was reading through this and thinking that OP was getting a bit of a pasting.

She's the one on a parenting forum, looking for advice. She's the one rearing the children and earning the money for them to live on.
But she's expected to almost parent her Ex also? by rising above his taunts and being the bigger person?
She's already the bigger person.

And OP, despite the frustration evident in your messages to him I wouldn't put you in the same ball park, let alone league as him.

For the good of your mental health please follow Boney's advice, and try to forgive yourself for whatever you're beating yourself up for. All you can do is change how you react to him and put up emotional walls to protect yourself, hard as that sounds.

When it comes to clothes at their dads have him collect and pick up from school. So they are in uniform. If he wants then out of uniform at any point well he needs to provide some clothes for them.

Do the school have an online shop for lunch/uniform/trip payments. Sign his email up to it and have them send the reminders to him if he's agreed to pay half on stuff. That way the school will chase him for stuff.

Don't parent him just manage him in the best way for your children.

There should be no conditions on what he does with his actual time with the children. He should however be collecting and dropping off at the times he is supposed to unless you have agreed otherwise beforehand.

AS regards parties - the half share seemed very high and you say they don't have parties now. Perhaps organise cheaper parties that you can afford yourself and then if he does make a contribution it is a bonus. However you should not expect a contribution.

The silly tit for tat texting just has to stop. I am not convinced that your ill will towards your ex has not spilled over and influenced your children.

As long as you are getting sucked into his drama he is still controlling you. Do you honestly thinks he reads your mammoth texts? I doubt it very much - he glances at them, smirks and probably says to his mates 'look what that crazy bitch has sent this time, she needs to get a life'.

You are never going to change him. People here have offered very sound advice. Keep communications short and factual and only when absolutely necessary. Set clear boundaries for your own behaviour. Don't change plans to suit him. If you need to rant about him do it online or to a mate or to a counsellor, not to him or family members.

You both sound absolutely horrible, and very petty.

I wish you could see the damage you are doing to your children. :(

You both sound absolutely horrible, and very petty.

I wish you could see the damage you are doing to your children.
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What an unpleasant thing to say to someone who has said that she feels suicidal.

Did I miss where it says that the children are directly involved in these text squabbles?

The kids don't want to go because he's incapable of caring for them or entertaining them appropriately

Stop pushing him into having a relationship. Tell him contact times, make yourself unavailable if he is late. Be consistent. Don't text except for logistics of swapping over DC. The kids won't die if they come home covered in pen, it's not brilliant, but you having a go is making him worse. Limit messages and don't rant, you lose moral high ground. If he fails to keep up his contact, it sounds like no-one loses bar him.

he smokes in his car and house around the DC, from what my DC tell me I think he is dealing drugs from his house when they are there but I have no proof, he doesn't have enough or proper clothes for them

Based on this alone, I would stop contact and let him take you to court. If he does end up with access, you can keep a record of every time he breaches the agreement.

You both sound absolutely horrible, and very petty. I wish you could see the damage you are doing to your children. sad

Helpful. What's your solution?

I think you sound absolutely at the end of your tether and he sounds like a bell end.

Here's what I would do:

1. Until the maintenance was regularly hitting my bank account having been deducted at source by CSA: nothing. Fuck all. He wants to be a Dad, he starts there.

1. Once that was in, agree to start again with the kids seeing him one after school a week. No overnights. If he doesn't agree to start there he doesn't get them at all cos you're not forcing them. If he looks after them and is consistent they will want to see him more. If he doesn't- his problem, he loses them. Let him take you to court. He won't, anyway.

1. Disengage from communication other than the above. Completely.

1. Do something nice for yourself .

Your responses are so aggressive, you rise to the bait everytime.

You both sound as bad as one another and if it were me i just wouldn't get into debate about things like the bookies via text. Not worth the aggro!

You need to take the emotion out of your responses. Simple statements and requests regarding practicalities.

I feel for you OP. Your responses are born out of sheer frustration and concern for your children.

I've been through the same and it's soul destroying. Shame on those posters saying you are both as bad as each other - you're raising the children basically alone and he is neglecting their basic needs.

I would try a form of communication called grey rock. It's ideal for narcissists etc. It takes back the control.

I would also stop contact in light of the smoking.

Actually I recently saw some great advice on the relationships board about dealing with unpleasant, constant messages from an ex.

It was along the lines of limiting all contact to email, which would be auto-filtered into a separate folder. Set a day/time each week to check the messages. Then leave it a day before replying to any that genuinely require a response so that you are able to be calm and unemotional.

Does that sound like something that might help?

I'm embarrassed for you.

Think of your children

She is @zamnlove that's why she's asked for help and advice.

I'm embarrassed for you and every other PP whose criticised but suggested fuck all to actually help.

Thanks again everyone. I will look into some the suggestions, particularly grey rock. I've tried insisting that we communicate only via email but he will just call and call over and over. So, if I ask him to help out or contribute to something, he will read it and then call me, even if I don't answer so I never get an answer from him. He also changes his number frequently (drug dealers do don't they?).

Our social worker has just been (not a child protection issue, DD has severe MH problems) and the contact issue was raised. They are referring us to a facilitated contact organisation but there's a waiting list. They also want me to access the women's centre for legal advice and to do the freedom programme. So at least they're taking it seriously. They've also tried engaging him but they haven't got a response.

Zam, all I ever think about is the children. Problem is, I feel like I'm the only one doing so which is breeding resentment and anger.

Well that's great news OP definitely use your social worker as much as you can them documenting what goes on will help.

I will honestly reiterate 9.99 phone. Phone off unless they are with children. Every email you send write at the bottom please respond by email phone calls will be ignored until he gets the message.

In the future don't ask him for any help. Until he can get the basics right. That's not to say you can email today and say DC new uniform cost is £100. If you would like to contribute towards it please send money in envelope with children by start of term. And then don't expect the money. That way he's had the option. It's in writing. He has no need to reply. You want to cut the communication between you to a minimum.

Basically if he isn't calling you the ice queen by the end of the month your doing it wrong.