To feel irritated when families have multiple children they cannot afford

[Teddy7878]

First of all I accept that no contraception is 100% foolproof and pregnancy sometimes can occur even when people are trying their hardest to be careful.

I also accept that sometimes people's circumstances change and they could go from being financially comfortable to losing their jobs etc during their children's lives.

What really winds me up though are people who actively try and get pregnant when they already have several children and cannot afford the ones they already have. I sometimes see threads on here where people state they have less than £50 to feed a family of 7 for a week and no money at all for any luxuries whatsoever.

My DP and I will be in our mid 30s when we have our first child and we have decided it might be our only child. We want to be able to afford to give it a great life so have saved up hard for a few years beforehand. Between us we earn 65k so we live comfortably and don't have debts (other than the mortgage). It upsets me that we have to make the decision to only have one (possibly two) children and other people are having 5+ kids when they can't afford them.

Money isn't everything, a loving family home is always going to be the most important thing, but if you can only afford to eat lentils and never take your kids out anywhere fun or go on holiday or afford a car or pay for them to do activities outside of school or buy them a few nice things for Xmas then why keep continuing to have more and more children and making your situation even more stressful for everyone involved?! Why not just stick to one or two children?

I'm assuming the benefit claimant who takes their kids to Florida for three weeks has other income streams ie savings, family help, friend providing accommodation etc. Benefits alone would not cover the huge expense.

People are diverse. We all have different wants, needs, ideals and values. People are differently educated, have different upbringing's, have different peers and live in different communities. Your opinion on how many children people should have dependant on their financial circumstances is yours. I perhaps would worry less on how other's choose to live.
You remain irritated, save your 65k and have your planned 2. Your facebook friend will choose to have as many children she desires regardless of income, whilst you remain opposed to her choices.

@Alittlepotofrosie

Spot on. Best reply I've seen in a long time and I agree 100%.

Saying that you want to give your child a great life by the things you afford kinda makes me think you base happiness around money as a child a sibling and a few less toys cheaper holidays means they have a family when u are no longer around. I'm not saying I don't agree that some people have huge families they can't afford but we will be trying for a second and I'd love a third but we both work and I'll make sacrifices (clothes budget, meals out, my haircut costs a tenner by a friend of a friend)

So, what your saying is only the rich should have more than 1 child, I think limiting the number of children someone has will not work out well years and years down the line.
Who will be around to look after the elderly, people are living longer, the young generations are needed to help look after them, this mushroom effect is already happening in Japan, where birth rates have been low because people chose to focus on careers etc, rather than getting married/ having children.

Op I doubt you will ever live in poverty on your income, You are being melodramatic.
Dramatising as though you are struggling its a bit cringey really...

Me personally I'm not on benefits and I agree people shouldn't have kid after kid on them but I think there are very few people who do this, I have four kids and a growing business but we manage currently on less than your income, Although we do project to earn much more in the future.
I'm just saying it can be done, People prioritise different things, We don't have any fun in the sun holidays but choose to holiday in the UK the kids still have as much of a great time as they would abroad, Its all about people having different wants/needs.

Everything Alittlepotofrosie said.

Some people are just massively irresponsible. Or massively naive and seemingly unaware that circumstances can change and therefore maybe life/health insurance, a few hundred in the bank might be a good idea before going for numbers 3, 4, 5. That's their business, I just don't feel the need to be sympathetic if it all goes tots up, or petition against the benefit cap for big families.

Hmmm, I am torn here. I have 3, the youngest being 6 months who was a surprise (post vasectomy of DH), and we are breaking even just. We are on a decent enough income circa 80-90k, but don't have much in savings now after being on mat leave, mortgage, cars etc.
I get frustrated that people who are on low incomes/ low hours get far more assistance in things like childcare etc despite our income being slashed in half we still get no help.
However, it is not the children's fault and I guess we as a society need to try and ensure that all children get a certain standard of upbringing regardless of the parents choices.

Jealous?! Haha don't make me laugh. Our 65k between us goes on mortgage, car, savings, private pensions, bills, food. All the usual things! We could afford to have 3 kids but why would we actively choose that when we'd not be able to provide for them properly in their teens and later life? Plus we'd not have money to put into things like a pension.
I'm fully aware that money doesn't equal great parenting. My best friend grew up in a wealthy home and had a miserable time as she was basically brought up by a nanny who she didn't like.
If we are lucky enough to have 1-2 kids then we will have enough money to all live comfortably and be able to help them out

Plus you must have a vey extravagant lifestyle if you can only afford one child on £65k that's a whopping salary

I do feel for you but I also think you are looking at larger families with rose-tinted specs, missing the fact that not all of them are as happy - or functional - as you may think

I don't think you know me to make that judgement.

I know that many families, large or small, are far from ideal and fraught with in-fighting, estrangement and toxic relationships. My glasses are far from rose-tinted.

I think the point I was making in my original and subsequent post had been lost on you.

What concerns me more is those who rush to have children without being in a stable relationship,
Once fair enough but I see people do it again and again.
Then they end up alone and rush into the next relationship introducing their dc to yet another parent figure which all ends in tears.

Plus you must have a vey extravagant lifestyle if you can only afford one child on £65k that's a whopping salary

Or maybe they live in an expensive area, have a big mortgage because that's the reality for most people getting on the property ladder without the bank of Mum and dad and are paying off or have only just paid off student loans? You don't have to be extravagant for a £65k gross (which is a hell of a lot less after tax, NI and pensions) combined income to get swallowed up.

YANBU. We have one DD, I'm pregnant with baby #2, and that will be our family complete. If we won the lottery we'd definitely have more children, I would really love at least a third, and I feel sad that this will be our last baby. But we want to be able to afford days out, school trips, holidays abroad and extracurricular activities. Long term we want to be able to help with university, house deposit and those kind of things. We could have more children - but at a cost to the kind of lifestyle we want for them I guess.

I find it sad when there are huge families with not enough to go around. I'm a teacher and I can think of a few that I've known that live a real hand to mouth existence. Their parents love them, but I know that affording the basics like food and clothes is a stretch, and it's really sad.

Plus you must have a vey extravagant lifestyle if you can only afford one child on £65k that's a whopping salary

Perhaps she's in London?

I suspect OP wants to sustain a certain lifestyle. Which isn't unreasonable, but sometimes something has got to give.

Emily, I agree with that. I see many people who have children with their new boyfriend/girlfriend very quickly, without gauging how the relationship is actually going. I am more interested in parents who are mentally and emotionally stable rather than financially stable. My parents were (mostly) financially stable, but definitely not emotionally stable. My mother was emotionally abusive and my father was very manipulative to his children, especially if he had a fight with my mom. I'd prefer to grow up in a poorer household rather than one with my parents constantly playing mind games with their children.

So i am right then. You could afford more than one, you just don't want to make any sacrifices. Thanks for confirming it.

Other peoples reproductive choices really are none of your business. once you get your head round that you'll feel a lot happier.

You're right of course, Teddy, but it hardly matters that you've been so clear about what you're saying ... you'll still get people insisting you actually mean something else so they can be outraged by it

Either that or just chuck in a few insults ...

I earn 22k and my partner earns 41k. We both obviously get taxed 20% on each income and we have to fund our mortgage, commuting, savings and pension. We don't live extravagantly but we also don't want to be struggling to afford every little thing. We live in a small terraced house and drive a 2nd hand car. Our holiday this year has been in this country. Yes, we could afford to live more extravagantly and also probably have 2-3 kids but we don't want to penny pinch and not be able to support them in their teens and later life. If people want to make sacrifices to have multiple children then that's fine, each to their own. I'm only judging people who are seriously struggling and then plan to fall pregnant again. Why make the lives of your current children even more difficult?

You don't have to make the decision to only have one child.
That is up to you, plenty of people have more than this and manage on a quarter of your large income.
What a goady and rude thread.

YANBU. At all. I completely agree.
I believe that if they are willing to pay for them themselves, then it is up to them, however the problem in the UK is the very generous welfare system in the UK.
It is a generalisation but typically the only people with large families are the very wealthy and the very poor. The wealthy can afford them and the poor have the taxpayer to rely on. However, while it irks me no end as I hand over 45% of my salary to pay for them, I wouldn't want their life so I try not to dwell on it.

I think it will be interested to see if there is a genuine cap on child tax credits after one or two children, and whether it will make a difference but I suspect there will be ways around it.

@alittlepotofrosie
Oh silly me - let's all bury our heads in the sand then and reproduce as much as we please without any concern for the issues that this country are facing. Let's keep having lots of babies as things like house prices, food prices and energy prices rise each year, education and the NHS continue to struggle to the point of collapse, and the benefits system gets tightened so families start to struggle even more.
Thanks for making me see sense. I'm definitely going to have at least 3 kids now and I can't wait for them to get older and not have a pot to piss in. I also can't wait for the state pension to be stopped and my OH and I haven't been able to save any money up. Hurrah!

I actually don't know anyone that does this, Where are all these people that do it are they all on TV?

@gillybeanz I don't want to just 'manage' though. I want to continue to be debt free after it took me years to pay mine off. I want to be mortgage free by the time I'm 50. I want to have a good pension. I want to be able to take my child abroad and experience different cultures. I want them to have a great education and fund them through uni. I want to help with things live driving lessons or hobbies they have. I want to be able to cook them nice meals.
All things I didn't have that I want for my child. And all things I won't be able to do if I have more than 2 kids without having to rely on credit cards etc