To feel irritated when families have multiple children they cannot afford

[Teddy7878]

First of all I accept that no contraception is 100% foolproof and pregnancy sometimes can occur even when people are trying their hardest to be careful.

I also accept that sometimes people's circumstances change and they could go from being financially comfortable to losing their jobs etc during their children's lives.

What really winds me up though are people who actively try and get pregnant when they already have several children and cannot afford the ones they already have. I sometimes see threads on here where people state they have less than £50 to feed a family of 7 for a week and no money at all for any luxuries whatsoever.

My DP and I will be in our mid 30s when we have our first child and we have decided it might be our only child. We want to be able to afford to give it a great life so have saved up hard for a few years beforehand. Between us we earn 65k so we live comfortably and don't have debts (other than the mortgage). It upsets me that we have to make the decision to only have one (possibly two) children and other people are having 5+ kids when they can't afford them.

Money isn't everything, a loving family home is always going to be the most important thing, but if you can only afford to eat lentils and never take your kids out anywhere fun or go on holiday or afford a car or pay for them to do activities outside of school or buy them a few nice things for Xmas then why keep continuing to have more and more children and making your situation even more stressful for everyone involved?! Why not just stick to one or two children?

We are a family on benefits, we have about 25k a year. Every time that someone comes to the flat they always remark on how many toys we have. We don't get to go on holiday every year but we have regular short outings, such as a recent two night stay in a hotel. My DD is 5 and has been to Florida twice, each time spending 3 weeks there.

We could easily afford more children and live on less than half the money you do. We don't have a mortgage, but do live in private rented flat. It's all about perceptions and how you choose to spend money. Plus I try hard to never buy anything that is full price (except for food), I'm always researching discounted items so we can enjoy more things.

I wonder if it occurred to the OP that perhaps these people could afford said children when they had/planned them...

Because, you know, shit happens.

@hatesummer thanks for calling me a twat - really mature!

I'm not saying for a second people can only have one child. What I'm saying is people should only have as many children as they can afford without getting into crippling debt or having to live in poverty. If that's 1 child or 10 children then whatever! People should be more mindful of the fact that this country is on its knees when it comes to things like the NHS and education though

I also don't like OP's judgy tone, but this is a nasty thing to say.

It's not meant to be nasty. Unfortunately it is what I'm dealing with right now in my own life so she's getting it straight from the horse's mouth.

I don't see any point in pretending that having to deal with your parents deaths on your own at a relatively young age is easy.

@mrsjoyodell so you clearly haven't read this thread then seeing as I've stated about 500 times now that I'm not aiming this at anyone whose circumstances change once they have kids. It could happen to any of us! It's aimed at people who already can't afford lots of kids and plan another pregnancy. Jeez this is hard work Having to repeat myself over and over again

Seriously people go to florida whilst living off benefits?? Is this a joke ?

and for everyone who says this there will be the person who doesn't get on with their siblings

It's swings and roundabouts.

Absolutely. And my sibling died when I was young so I'm not an "only" in the strict sense of the word, which may have influenced my feelings as a child.

But my point still stands, taking the "responsible" route with your family planning may not necessarily be perceived as such an advantage by the child itself.

Whatever you decide, one child or 20, luxury or scrimping, the kid may resent it.

Yabu to think you can only afford one child when you have been saving up for one before hand and have earnings of £65,000 a year. Slightly melodramatic...

I'm talking about families who are born and bred in the UK who are struggling to afford to get by Day by day, and go out of their way to have more children.

Surely this is a tiny, tiny set of people though, given all the more likely reasons (some of which aired on this thread) for people who may have children in less than ideal financial circumstances?

@itsonlysubterfuge
Well that's just great that you get to go abroad and buy your kids lots of toys and live comfortable whilst on benefits. Whereas I have to work 50 hours per week and have to save up for 2 years to be able to have one child. I'm speechless

I know what you mean OP, I'm 41 have one child and always worried about providing for her future when both DH and I work and wish I could just chill and go with the flow!

I think there are lots of reasons.

I spent years working in an inner city school and there were a handful of families who clearly couldn't cope with the DC they have, but went on to have more. There is usually a lot of DV involved, lack of education and just bad decision making in general. Affording holidays/ after school activities are SO far from their thinking. They live in a completely different world to you OP and have mostly grown up in chaotic families themselves. They're not really making decisions as such, just stumbling through life.

Then there are families (like the one I grew up in) who choose to have more children and not have holidays etc. Parents didn't claim benefits and we had a mostly happy childhood.

Some people think choosing to have DC later in life is selfish. Parents more likely to die when the 'child' is relatively young and too old to have much of a relationship with grandchildren. Also if you only have one then all the responsibility of elderly parents falls on one person.

People make different choices for lots of different reasons; everyone's experiences and therefore priorities are different.

@mama234 how is it melodramatic? We want to be mortgage free and not live in poverty when we retire seeing as there probably won't be a state pension by then. Having one child means we could fund it through uni etc too. We could afford 2 children, maybe even 3, but we would be working ourselves to death to be able to fund it all. I don't want my child/children to ever have to struggle when they leave home like I did

@000puravida I've already stated several times that I pass zero judgement on anyone whose financial circumstances change after having multiple children. I totally get that people can lose their jobs, fall seriously ill, have their partner leave them or have unexpected costs that get them into debt.

In which case I am with you

I'll be 32 and my partner will be 37. If I am lucky enough to live to be 80 then our child will be 48 by then. I'm sure they'll have their own family by then, and if not they'll have cousins and other extended family who live in the same town who can help them. We're a very close family so they'll grow up to be very close to cousins etc. It's not the end of the world to have a child at our age!

I was brought up as one of four children. My parents struggled. But then I was born in the US where BC isn't easily available. It was also the 1980s, so my mother would have struggled with the cost of birth control. She had all four of us in 7 years. I think they were lucky, we never went without food or had nearly the same deprivation of many who have more than 2 children. We went to private school, even though my parents sacrificed things they wanted so we'd get a good education.

My husband and I are pregnant with one, and planning to have a second. He's one of two children himself, and doesn't want anymore than two. I agree, I'd prefer one or two myself. Whether people want more than 3 is their business. I note the religious/cultural side. What people sometimes don't understand is that in many of these cultures, you have a large family because you don't expect all of your children to survive (especially if you're from certain regions). Furthermore, almost every mainstream religion notes the importance of large families and denounce the use of birth control (in the most strictest evaluation of the religion, ex. Islam, Catholicism, Judaism). This isn't new to the current times, people in history have always had large families, and have survived and supported those families in the best way they possibly can.

I'm unsure if you are being unreasonable, but at the same time I can't say you're being reasonable either. Yes its your taxes, but you forget that many (most) of these people also pay taxes into the system, and the idea that the entire family is on benefits or cheating the system is wrong. Yes they may use more in education, health, etc. than they put in taxes, but isn't that the point of the system? To make sure every child is educated and healthy without payment?

Op you are being sensible. Kids get incredibly expensive as they get older particularly when they hit the teen years. We have 4 and it has been a struggle although they do have everything they need and we can afford the occasional foreign holiday and to help them with driving lessons and school trips etc.

I agree with you Op.

And nowadays, with more kids going to Uni, you may have to financially support children until they are mid 20's.

Putting aside the financial aspect of things, what about the practicalities? Who wants to cook dinner for 8 people every night? Launder 6 school uniforms. Do school runs for 20 years or so? And most likely still have kids at home until you are 70+ ?

I have 2 kids. They are both now away at Uni. Me and DH are mid 40's and can have amazing holidays and stuff. We still support the kids financially, and will do so for another 3 years (until they finish Uni and get paid work). But I can't imagine still having say, 4 kids at home and doing this for another 20+ years. How tiring!

There was a documentary on TV a while back, about large families. Interestingly, not one of the children interviewed was happy. They missed out on holidays and a lot of stuff that their friends had, and they were resentful of having to help raise younger siblings. Some even went NC once they left home.

You are making a very relevant, honest observation and sometimes the truth can be unpalatable.
I would have loved another child but I can't afford it and I don't expect you to pay for my kids.

Your plan sounds good but shit happens. Have you thought about it not happening for you at all? You may wish you did it earlier.

There are many families which are far worse off for a child than those who might just have less wealth.

Also who's to say those claiming they have no money are not just mismanaging their finances and would feel no worse off without any children?

In the end, what does a child actually need and what are luxuries we deem necessary? The answer will be very different from one segment of society to one another. Live and let live.

@ladystarkers yes we have thought about that (I've been pregnant before and miscarried so it could happen again). It wouldn't be the end of the world for us if we couldn't have kids. Disappointing - yes, but we would find fulfilment in other ways. There's no chance I'll regret not trying for one earlier as my circumstances were terrible up until about 3 years ago. I was in crippling debt, hated my job and was in an unhappy relationship. I'm glad I've waited and 32 isn't exactly ancient to become a mum anyway

Butchy - sorry to hear about your situation, but as someone from a large family I can tell you that there is no guarantee that siblings will help, get involved - or that you'll even like each other.

I am lucky that some of my sibs do roll their sleeves up and help with my parents - there are two though that refuse to get involved or help, not even to visit but spend an awful lot of time telling us what we should be doing

I also have a friend who is one of two. She's running round after her parents helping care for her DM and grieving the loss of her DF, whilst busy fielding phone calls from her brother - who is abroad - and wants his Mum put in a care home pronto, so that the assets can be divvied up and he can have his share of the cash. Needless to say her brother never comes back, never emails or phones or makes an effort to keep in touch with his Mum - didn't even bother to come back for his Dad's funeral. She is having an utterly shit time of it and it would be far easier if she was managing this on her own, because her brother is causing more problems than he solves.

I do feel for you but I also think you are looking at larger families with rose-tinted specs, missing the fact that not all of them are as happy - or functional - as you may think.

Husky - My eldest ds is resentful of us being a large family. He feels he has missed out, I'm not sure why though as he has always had holidays, nice clothes etc. He sees his gf ( only child) being bought an expensive car the minute she passed her driving test and feels resentful. I tell him he's selfish and that having lovely siblings is far more important but he doesn't see it that way !!

So you're jealous basically. On earnings of 65k a year where the hell is all your money going if you can't afford more than one child? It seems from what you're saying you want to just be able to live to the standard you choose and only have one child. You could make sacrifices and have more than one but you don't want to clearly, you would rather blame the people that do make sacrifices in their own situation which you know nothing about. You know one family that does as you describe. You haven't come up with any more examples. Having more money won't make you a better parent by the way. Curbing your awful judgemental attitude might make you a better person though.