We're going to have to call a halt to Brexit aren't we?

[Hufflepug]

Lukewarm Remain voter here. Understand that the Government has to listen to 'the will of the people' and all that.

But for the love of God, now that it's clear what absolute economic suicide we're committing surely we've got to put a halt to it whilst the govt and the opposition work out what the fuck's going on!

AIBU

I am quite sure there are as many German tourists in Spain, although I don't have any figures. As for having fewer tourists - some places are getting over-run with them and are beginning to protest. So a few drunken British staying at home will be to their advantage.

The point with the Irish PM is that Ireland don't want a border, neither do the EU. Neither party are under any compulsion to agree to anything.

Up to the UK to sort out. But don't expect cooperation, because it's not in their interests. Sorry.

The point I was trying to make is that the pounds spent in the EU mount up, each country might have a different reason but we do have an effect on each and everyone of their economies, it's all very well for the collective view of the EU to say we will punish you for leaving, but won'they also be punishing themselves.

The biggest and most obvious will be if food can't be delivered to us on the day after the leaving date, as you say it may not be much but what happens to the farmers who were a day late due to a delay in production of fresh goods and get stopped at the gates. Each country will need it's own contingency plans, and will want to fight to ensure they don;t suffer in the deal. That's if there is one

The first commitment of EU countries is to the EU. And the collective commitment of the EU is to the EU.

What's good for the EU will prevail. And there's no appetite to give UK an easy deal. So Spanish tourism might suffer a little. That's a spec in the ocean. The EU will be there to compensate them and help them promote elsewhere. It's really not a big deal.

The EU aren't punishing us, they are saying we can't have a better deal out than in. Which is exactly what we would be saying if we were staying and someone else was leaving. No one is punishing us, that's trying to rewrite the reality to whip up Brexiteer indignation. It does seem a successful tactic.

Thing is, the UK's hand is so very weak.

I'm not sure we have any power to hold over anyone when it comes to negotiating, except potentially Ireland and Spain.

In Ireland's case they've resigned themselves to lost export revenue, are frantically wooing banks and big businesses to relocate and are standing firm on the border. Hence the strong position of the PM in the last week. Spain have the complexities of Gibraltar and the tourist point. But as I said upthread, I'm sure they can be compensated.

But what can the UK hold over Germany/France/Italy for example?

Cars Laurie apparently and I believe jam featured at some point . And don't forget at the end of the day the Germans are arrogant, evil and having lost the war now dominate us through the EU so must be defeated, whatever the cost.

Oh jam Mirabelle, how silly of me to forget. Yes, I'm sure jam will save us. An economy based on jam exports, how smashing.

Fits well with the post war vibe that's defined most of the brexit discourse.

Well as you say we provide very little to the EU, and they aren't worried about how to plug the budget after we go. As we only send a tiny bit of money their way.
So it will be fine, as the UK have nothing the EU want or need, I am so glad you have set my mind at rest on this matter.
We will just have to grown are own food and but what we can't from somewhere outside the EU.

Mensa, you say?

You do realise that to access the Single Market, we're not only going to have to agree to all the rules thereof (and abide by the relevant jurisdictions), but also pay £££££££s? And for every other bit of cooperation (FS Passporting if we're lucky) and access, we're going to have to agree to abide by the relevant EU jurisdiction and pay £££££s?

We may just end up paying more to the EU than we did before, for far less benefit.

But at least we got our sovereignty back, hey?

Mummy while we are a net contributor, we put less in and get more out than any of the other major economies. We actually have a very sweet deal with the EU, negotiated by Thatcher I believe.

It's only money, it's not as big a hole to plug as you are making out, most of the EU is in recovery. France in particular has loads to gain in taking our passporting rights off us. That's probably millions for their economy right there.

We were a monumental pain in the arse about the EU throughout our membership anyway. I'd say they're glad to see the back of us.

Now they need us to get our fricking act together and go.

If we use the Single market then we have to agree to honor all their trade deals, I think you will find we are leaving it for this reason and will be making new ones of our own.
If we pay so little in then why is Germany so annoyed at being asked to cover the amount as their % will increase.

we are leaving it for this reason and will be making new ones of our own

Fine in theory. In practice, this will take years, we don't have the talent or resource in place to do it and we won't get as favorable terms (with really any country, inside or outside the EU) as we have currently. It will cost us £££££££s. Financially, we'd be much better off in the single market.

And as for Germany, if you think they are more inconvenienced than us by this whole process, you're sadly mistaken.

So a few drunken British staying at home will be to their advantage.

Until hotels, shops and bars start to close through fewer tourists, and building stops on new ones, and then local unemployment starts to increase even more. Spain already has horrendous unemployment levels, especially youth unemployment. They NEED tourism - they may not like it, but in many places, tourism is the only trade.

Mummy, even the most ardent Brexiteers are dlaiming we will still have access to the Single Market. Are you proposing that we stop trading with the EU altogether?

Bizarre logic...

I said Germany will be asked to pay more. as will all the other net contributors, but should the budgets be cut to deal with the loss of our income, then it also means the countries who benefit more than they contribute will also get less money.
Then the EU will have a part of group who feel they are losing in order that the richer countries are not penalized, this will lead to feelings of unfairness so which ever why they play it someone will not like the result.

...but they will accept it (as it will presumably be democratically decided) because they are not unaware of the benefits of EU membership...

It will be on the WTA deal, which isn't the SM deal.
Motheroffourdragons People are saying the EU is united against us, it's not for that reason and may more.
No matter what we agree to do, or to pay, it still has to be passed by all the remaining EU countries, and I just don't see how this will happen.