We're going to have to call a halt to Brexit aren't we?

[Hufflepug]

Lukewarm Remain voter here. Understand that the Government has to listen to 'the will of the people' and all that.

But for the love of God, now that it's clear what absolute economic suicide we're committing surely we've got to put a halt to it whilst the govt and the opposition work out what the fuck's going on!

AIBU

I presume she was referring to the not on the electoral register part of the pie chart karma. Some of them will be non-citizens, yes.

However, those who voted Remain, those who were on the register but did not vote, and those who were too young to vote but are now or soon will be eligible, significantly outnumber both the non-citizens and the Leave voters. Not least because, as I mentioned, some people who weren't citizens in June 2016 are now or will be soon enough. I presume we all know there's been a spike in applications for PR cards and citizenship applications?

This is why the point maryz made cannot be airily dismissed.

OMG mummy!

Surgery's only scheduled now and the anesthetist rang up to say there's no suitable pain relief, they have to cut it off just like that.

What makes you so certain though mummy, seriously? I can't see how anyone could be sure. I'm certainly not, about anything. After all, it's yet to be established whether Article 50 is reversible.

So why do we have to blindly carry on? It's insane. I have young teens and interestingly we live in a staunch leave area. They ran a mock election at school which was overwhelmingly remain. I would imagine many of their generation are the same. In a tiny number of years they'll be voting age and dealing with this crap. When can they be heard?

Well that's my day fucked.

Thanks Brexit. The ultimate mood hoover.

Actually, while I'm still thinking about the apparently heinous crime of Talking Britain Down, how about the hypocrisy of BeLeavers doing just that themselves?

It's all Talking the Talk but not Walking the Walk.

The Talk is all sunlit uplands, untold wealth for the NHS and for everybody, sovereignty, control, defiance of European tyranny over our noble peoples, being a glorious example of towering and righteous nationhood to the rest of the globe, we're going to have the best standards for human rights/food/safety, native-born English people will be awash with highly-paid employment when all the foreigners leave, etc etc.

But when it comes to the Walk: cheering on far right parties in other sovereign nations' elections because we wanted them to collapse the EU, "Trump, Erdogan, Duterte and assorted Middle East regimes aren't so bad, they're just misunderstood and we're going to be their bestest buddies", "Chlorinated chicken and hormone-filled beef are delicious and safe", "Who cares if the NHS is losing nurses", "Job losses are a price worth paying", "We may be suffering up to 100 years of economic downturn but it will be great after most of us are dead".

I mean, maybe I don't quite understand this whole BeLeaving thing, but it's not exactly sounding all positive and rosy to me.

Good news is that Alan partridge will be voice of brexit in a new series.

Fresh, you didn't explain about the terrible loss of sovereignty and how things are going to get better... when you've got a moment?

Did you see this response by Jonathan Freedland about a second referendum in his mn web chat yesterday?

arnoldbarnacles
Hi Jonathan,

The top story on the guardian website at the moment is about the possibility of a second Brexit referendum. Is that really possible? I thought that once we'd triggered article 50 there was no going back? 

As it happens, even Article 50 itself can be revoked. The man who wrote it - a British diplomat who is now Lord Kerr - is clear that the country that triggers it can pull it back. So we can change our minds.

Indeed, that's a core democratic idea. One generation cannot bind the hands of the next generation. A democratic society can always change its mind.

What's more, a second referendum might be necessary. That's what Vernon Bogdanor argues in that Guardian piece you mention. He think the votes are just not there in either the Lords or Commons to approve the plan the May gov't is likely to negotiate. It will require a second referendum to give it the stamp of approval.

My own view is that, if public opinion shifts unmistakably, if people conclude that real Brexit - as opposed to the fantasy Brexit that was offered in the referendum - is just going to cause too much damage to the country and to their own lives, then they will demand a way to express that. The obvious - perhaps the only - way to overturn the 2016 referendum is with another referendum that has equal legitimacy. So it's not just possible. It may be necessary.

coulda, woulda , shoulda, but they didn't .
Not the people who did bother to make the effort to have their voice hear, but the ones your claim could have derailed this Exit.
The whole point is more who bothered said leave, just because you can prove they would have lost if all the people who could have voted , should have voted.

theelements

Its not just that,

A number of posters have asked for positives, some replies have on the face of it shown positive media stories (not getting into whether they are right or wrong) some replies can best be summed up with the phrase 'europe is worse'

Just like the election fought by the tories this year was pretty much 'labour is crap'

And no, for the cheap seats, not a labour supporter

Brexiteers on this thread do seem v pleased by the way things are going.

I wish they'd share in more detail what they think is so excellent.

We're not saying they could have derailed the exit. We're saying they could still, along with some who couldn't vote then but can now or soon will. There's a crucial distinction. Future, not past.

I think that's a really good analogy londonista and a very similar thing actually happened to a friend of mine. They were so in love with the house that they soldiered on through more and bad news for quite a while but eventually saw sense and withdrew and are incredibly glad they did. The house is still on the market 5 years later.
I don't know a single Remainer who thinks that the EU is perfect and many are quite critical of it but, on balance, decided that we're be better off staying in.
However, there are a hard core of Brexiteers who simply not accept that there are any possible downsides to Brexit. Engaging with them is like trying to persuade a Jehovah' Witness to convert to Islam. Because to them, facts don't matter, you just need to have faith in Brexit.
I think these are the type that were hoping that the EU would witness the glory that is Brexit, other countries would start clamouring to leave and the EU would collapse like a house of cards.
Unfortunately, what has actually happened is that we have become the world's leading cautionary tale.

Forty six years ago I was studying The British Constitution and the text book I was given was by a Labour MP whose name escapes me. What has always remained with me is his statement that he did not believe in referendums "as it took responsibility away from Government". This reverberates now as we keep hearing "it is the will of the people". Right, lemming like we must follow the leader to the edge of the cliff! It isn't the leaders fault - like the hell it is.

I still wonder at the speed with which A50 was invoked. Optics of intent I suppose.

I cannot figure out why a decision was not made to have a "planning period" in advance of A50. You know, a roadmap, recruitment of trade negotiators, if, buts and maybes. Perhaps a year or so, and THEN either see the mess to come, or be prepared and go for it.

But no. And look where we are now. Seems to me it will be impossible to have everything in place before March 2019.

But I am just making an observation, and STILL waiting for the positives of Brexit to be advised to me.

The positives are:

'Get sovereignty back' (won't explain what that means)
'It will be difficult for a couple of years/decades then it will be great." (Won't explain how/why)

That's it, apparently.

Can we have a detailed list of the benefits of leaving please. Here, now. I've never seen one. Can leavers on this thread post the benefits. I need some glimmmers of hope to cling on to. The benefits of leaving are never discussed just the ethics of fallowing Brexit through. Are there any? Can we have dates, real figures, no spin.

IroningMountain

Same goes for me. Still waiting!!

Free to do trade deals with other countries.
Free to own our own fishing rights.
There will be money left over no matter what deal is struck, and we will be allowed to use this how we want, not being told which projects to use it on.
We gain the money used to pay the farmers, and it can be used to increase production on farms, rather than pay for doing nothing to the land.
We won't be fined for doing well. nor have the amount we have to pay raised by massive amounts because the budget won't balance.
Red tape will be reduced, as if something is wrong we will be free to make our own laws to improve areas.
The labour laws will stay, they have said that.
The UK will produce more, as if we can't get it imported we will have UK markets for goods, this must be a good idea.
It seems there are investments in electric cars that the UK are leading experts, this is the future. Re 2040 car sales.
I know they say investment in the UK is down, but in 2 years time things will be known, and if production increases so will employment,

China, Japanese and America are the leaders in electric cars, we have a lot of catching up to do.

Produce more of what? You can't just click your fingers, it will take years of gov investment thus less spare cash.Surely any spare cash will be sucked into setting up our own systems on our tiny own.

I thought the money from farmers was going to the NHS.