To be enraged there is no outcry over the scale of violence against women and girls?

[NoLoveofMine]

Just a handful of the girls and women attacked and in some cases murdered by men unknown to them for no other reason than their sex in the UK in the last few months alone:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-40529081
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/27/man-arrested-in-manchester-over-alleged-of-four-year-old-girl
www.itv.com/news/london/2017-04-24/e-fit-appeal-after-12-year-old-girl-sexually-assaulted-in-swimming-pool/
www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/15339336.Mother_speaks_out_about_sex_attacker_who_assaulted_her__brave__daughter_after_getting_off_Twickenham_bus/?ref=mrb&lp=14
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/28/man-who-raped-stranger-hours-before-his-wedding-given-life-term
www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15280636.VIDEO___Dangerous__rapist_jailed_for_life___but_are_there_more_victims_/
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40345133
www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2017-02-28/police-outraged-by-rape-attack-in-ipswich/
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/rape-sex-attack-manchester-manhunt-13236465
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39377626
amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/12/vadims-ruskuls-jailed-murder-pardeep-kaur-hotel-worker-m4
www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-step-up-patrols-after-15yearold-girl-sexually-assaulted-in-twickenham-a3592681.html
www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/chiswick-assault-woman-19-shoved-to-ground-and-repeatedly-punched-in-random-attack-a3429646.html

Just a small number of those I can remember off hand (which actually made any news) from the last 10 months alone. Then, to compound them all, there was this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-40763620

Pretty much all of these made only small local news. I just do not understand how people can't see the scale of this and how people can't fear for their daughters.

Yeah, because we all know that there are loads of men being attacked in the street by sexually predatory women. It happens so often it barely makes the local news.

Jesus wept. Wake up and look at the world around you. The idea that men are assaulted by women at anything like the frequency that women are assaulted by men is ridiculous and offensive.

Most male victims of sexual violence were assaulted by OTHER MEN..

From one of those horrendous incidents (where a man who'd been released from a life sentence for raping a schoolgirl then went on to rape another woman):

The harrowing attack has left the victim 'too scared to live her life in the way she did before', feeling unsafe wherever she goes and shuddering when a man comes near her, a statement to the court read.

She believed it was 'unjust' she was forced onto a waiting list for counselling to help her come to terms with the ordeal while Pearton was offered the service behind bars.

I would support a campaign with two objectives:

(A) Membership of the female sex to be classified as a protected characteristic for the purposes of hate crime legislation in the UK.
(B) Offences against women by men involving sexual violence of any kind to be treated as hate crime by default (i.e. with the presumption that it was a hate crime unless proven otherwise).

Who's with me, and how do we start?

I think that legal acknowledgement that these are hate crimes would go some way towards increasing awareness that this is a pattern, a society wide problem, and not just a few individual bad men.

That's good campaign WWA

I definitely agree WWA.

I would agree too WWA

Another suggestion is to vote for a woman by default whenever possible. If a man is exceptional, of course, consider voting for him, but otherwise the best person for the job must be presumed to be a woman. Men have had a good long turn, they just don't do enough to protect women.

Even a misogynist woman? It might lead to more female MPs, but it won't address the sexual violence issue or how society perceives sexual violence (ie as a series of unfortunate isolated incidents).

Such a huge problem stemming from the persisting view of women as a lesser sex. Regardless of the overt displays of equality the pervasive mindset and cultural backdrop is still of women as worth less. The social media comments when women play sport, when women model, when women are leading business are always an open door into the depths of that misogynistic culture. Sadly we teach our girls that their worth is dependent on their size and relative beauty and that the way to succeed is to ensure you fit the cultural ideal
of beauty. Change starts with us, as mothers, role modelling emotional and physical strength to our daughters, leading from the front, always calling up behaviour or comment, judging ourselves less by those physical ideals and more by our impact on the world. We also need to educate our sons and husbands and change the conversations that happen within the home. Those men raping and assaulting girls (and boys) are people's sons and husbands I'm not sure what the answer is but the conversations to prevent men finding this behaviour acceptable surely start with strong female role models and an absolute intolerance of any opinion that elevates one group above another based solely on their birth characteristics.

I agree WWA, VAWG should be classified a hate crime and females should be a protected category in the subject of hate crime.
Every time I see poster at work about Hate Crime and the need to protect people against discrimination or abuse on the grouonds of their "race, sexuality or gender" I want to deface it by writing "sex" over it.

Possibly, but women overall would have to be taken more seriously if we started to flex the muscles we have. OK, you might see some misogynist women who have been tutored to be acceptable to men elected in the first instance, but once women know that other women will elect them and they're not there as fodder to make up the numbers, more and better women will put themselves forward.

I think it's very important to tackle the idea that you vote for men by default and exceptional women if they exist but not otherwise as some kind of statement that you personally and in an enlightened manner, go for the best person for the job. I guess I'm saying if it's a male or a female average bag of offal, go for the female one.

And why, on a thread that is discussing the real and present danger posed by vioklent behaviour of males towards females is there always a "what about the menz?" statement?
Really, it is absolutely not OK to try to distract, deflect from and dilute knowledge of the problem in this way.

Felicity - gender isn't a protected characteristic for hate crimes at the moment (although it is protected for the purpose of discrimination at work etc).

Legally, the only characteristics that hate crime can be linked to in the UK are:

• disability
• race
• religion
• transgender identity
• sexual orientation

We need to get rhe law changed and add 'sex' to that list.

Just been reading a report by a youth organisation entitled Confronting violence against woman as a hate crime: outlining the debate. Can't link as it's a PDF but it brings up interesting for and against arguments, this stuck out:

"Statistics of crime against women would “overshadow those of other hate crime groups” (Jenness & Broad, 2009). This would also undermine the “historical struggle” of
the other groups drawing attention away from decades of political strife and campaign efforts (Chakraborti & Garland, 2015). In contrast, some are worried that figures on violence against women would get lost in the vast number of hate crime statistics and will be forgotten (Gerstenfeld, 2013). It could impact funding and donations to women’s charities and reduce public awareness of violence against women."

Whilst I eye rolled at the 'overshadow other groups' comments because, as ever, all other groups take priority over women it did raise some pertinent points to consider too when discussing the possibility of campaigning for changes.

The problem with that wwa is that's not how "hate crime" works. If they were to change the law then they would say sex could be a characteristic but they would have to include male in that also. The same way a "hate crime" against a white person could also be recorded.

I'm not articulating myself particularly well, but it's never individual races/religions/sexual orientations it's all

Yes, but how much hate crime against men do you think would be recorded? It would mirror the current statistics - 98% would be committed by men against women, particularly if there was a presumption that sexual violence (where the perpetrator and victim are a different sex) is a hate crime. There just isn't that level of crime by women against men, whatever some handmaidens have claimed upthread.

I'm not articulating myself particularly well

Indeed, you aren't.

People are perfectly able to tell whether a white man murders another white man because he's racist against white men (not terribly likely) or because of personal or financial reasons.

Same can go for men murdering men, in general. Why would that have to be recorded as hate crime?

Men murdering women is almost always a hate crime against the woman because of her sex. Very rarely can it be plausibly said to be about anything else.

Man murders woman because she ended a relationship with him = hate crime.
Man rapes woman = hate crime.

It is very easy to tell apart from other crime because there's NO REASON to do it other than hate.

Don't see how there would be any problem with it.
(Other than men as a class not wanting it because it would expose just how much they hate women)

If the situation were reversed and women suddenly started attacking men then women would probably all have a national curfew and a tag for anyone convicted of even a minor offence, if we went for a job involving men or vulnerable groups we would have additional background and reference checks, schools would start a program of women only education to prevent women from attacking men. Sentencing would be strengthened as a deterrent and there would be widespread condemnation from men and victim support but because it happens to women we get none of this......

yes I know gender isn't a protected charachteristic, but in much of the promotional material about respoecting diversity gender is named as a characteristic to be respected. Sex doesn't seem to appear (at least not in anything I've seen, and my field of work means I come into contact with a lot of "PC" publications.
I agree that violence against women and girls should be categorised as a hate crime.
Maybe that's worthy of a petition.

oops, shocking typos

We could ask for misogyny to be treated as a hate crime.

Indeed Bella. In fact if you remember the Cologne attacks, women were indeed advised to stay indoors, to only go out accompanied, to keep men at 'arms length' ffs. Some towns I believe did impose curfews, but not for the potential rapists, for the potential victims. Is this where we're heading?

excellent post wrenika

I think we need to be stricter on sexual assault, domestic violence, rape...but towards all perpetrators and all victims.

Pointing out that a little boy can be a victim as much as little girl is not downplaying the abuse in either case!

I personally refuse to raise my daughters in a way that make them think that being a victim, because they are female, is a fatality. I also refuse to downplay the risks for my boys. I would be very uncomfortable to leave a 9 year old alone with an unknown man in a changing room or public toilet, boy or girl.

It's so wrong to ignore the cases of boys - child or adults - being victim of abuse and so counter productive.

How would making it a hate crime change anything? Its already a crime and that doesnt stop it happening at all.