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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be enraged there is no outcry over the scale of violence against women and girls?

187 replies

NoLoveofMine · 29/07/2017 23:59

Just a handful of the girls and women attacked and in some cases murdered by men unknown to them for no other reason than their sex in the UK in the last few months alone:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-40529081
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/27/man-arrested-in-manchester-over-alleged-of-four-year-old-girl
www.itv.com/news/london/2017-04-24/e-fit-appeal-after-12-year-old-girl-sexually-assaulted-in-swimming-pool/
www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/15339336.Mother_speaks_out_about_sex_attacker_who_assaulted_her__brave__daughter_after_getting_off_Twickenham_bus/?ref=mrb&lp=14
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/28/man-who-raped-stranger-hours-before-his-wedding-given-life-term
www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15280636.VIDEO___Dangerous__rapist_jailed_for_life___but_are_there_more_victims_/
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40345133
www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2017-02-28/police-outraged-by-rape-attack-in-ipswich/
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/rape-sex-attack-manchester-manhunt-13236465
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39377626
amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/12/vadims-ruskuls-jailed-murder-pardeep-kaur-hotel-worker-m4
www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-step-up-patrols-after-15yearold-girl-sexually-assaulted-in-twickenham-a3592681.html
www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/chiswick-assault-woman-19-shoved-to-ground-and-repeatedly-punched-in-random-attack-a3429646.html

Just a small number of those I can remember off hand (which actually made any news) from the last 10 months alone. Then, to compound them all, there was this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-40763620

Pretty much all of these made only small local news. I just do not understand how people can't see the scale of this and how people can't fear for their daughters.

OP posts:
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 30/07/2017 10:40

I agree count

On the flip side excusing young girls wearing headscarves becuase they want to be like their mums the reasoning behind the wearing a headscarf is deeply misogynistic a choice only an adult should make

Naveloranges · 30/07/2017 10:44

Women are still seen as subservient to men in many walks of life. I have recently been watching a major sporting event. It sickens me to see women/girls being used to carry medals for the (mainly) men to present medals. If you watch lots of sport women are used in this way.

LowGravity · 30/07/2017 10:44

I would like to see a rape prevention campaign more along these lines

To be enraged there is no outcry over the scale of violence against women and girls?
Cocklodger · 30/07/2017 10:50

Honestly I can't see this changing.
Just a few years ago a young relative of mine was told she was dressing provocatively dressed in pjs (trousers and vest) aged 13 IN HER OWN FUCKING HOME when she was raped by a male relative.
The police, the courts, the man next to you on the bus are part of the problem and honestly they're closer than you think.
There are thousands of rapists. Many have wives (many rape their wives too Sad ) children, family and friends and respectable "jobs".
This thread has sickened me.
Not the posters on it but the content. This is probably one of the most distressing thing of today particularly when it is so very ignored.

Cocklodger · 30/07/2017 10:51

By the way the reason I'm so angry is a similar thing to the above happened to me but it was years ago (over 10) and I really thought things had changed.
My young family member was in court in 2013 which isn't long ago at all.

silkpyjamasallday · 30/07/2017 10:53

I always considered myself a feminist, but it is only since I had my daughter that I have started to get really really angry about the world we live in and how women are treated. It is the sense of powerlessness that bothers me the most, and I don't know what I can do to help make a change. I have never felt so unsafe in the world as I do now, and that is almost entirely down to being a woman, I carry a Swiss Army knife wherever I go and will be sending dd to do martial arts and self defence as soon as she is old enough. It's terrible that I feel the need to do either of these things.

I believe that reports of rape may have increased but there are a huge number of women who will have been raped or sexually assaulted that don't report for whatever reason. I was raped by an ex as a teen, I was staying with him at his university drinking and smoking weed with his friends, at some point I passed out. When I woke up in the morning I was sore and asked if we had had sex, I had no memory of it. Boyfriend confirmed that we had, but his friend later told me they carried me home unconscious so it was very likely I was still unconscious when he had sex with me and I certainly was not in a fit state to consent. I didn't consider it rape until recently, I hadn't actually thought about how it was unacceptable to have sex with someone unconscious and now I am appalled I stayed with my rapist for 2 more years. I know a shocking number of my peers who have been raped in similar circumstances and from discussion none of them think it is that serious, they think rape is an unknown man dragging you into an alleyway at knifepoint. This attitude needs to be changed and rape needs to be seen as a serious and abhorrent crime, jail time needs to be increased to reflect this. Of course rapists will behave well in jail, there are no women to rape and they want to get back out as soon as possible, it in no way means they won't do it again.

Gileswithachainsaw · 30/07/2017 10:54

It sickens me to see women/girls being used to carry medals for the (mainly) men to present medals. If you watch lots of sport women are used in this way

And what's with the kissing? Why do female sportspeople have to be kissed/kiss when presented with medals?

Men get hand shakes.

I have 2dds it scares me it really does.

And that guy who got a life sentence. How do you go from.life to being let out and deemed not a danger. He was in a male segregated prison of course he wouldn't show signs of being a danger. To men.Angry

streetface · 30/07/2017 11:02

I often wonder about this. Misogny is so powerful that I hear women, even one on here yesterday claiming, "we have won, there is no longer a need for feminism"

A woman afraid of opening her front door to men or having concerns about males in female only spaces are called sexist, hysterical (a go to insult for complaining women) and shut down.

The main problem as I see it is indeed internalised misogyny. Women do not stand together on the issues and victim blaming is rife. Until this changes, we will not be strong enough to bring about real change. Women will remain under-represented in politics, law making and media and men will continue to see us as beneath them.
I also believe mothers have a duty to bring women's issues to their sons. Model equal behaviour in the home and do not allow men to treat them as servants. Teach their sons basic home making skills so they don't leave home expecting a woman to keep them.

Redsrule · 30/07/2017 11:06

Yet feminist is still a dirty word to many ...

Whatisthisshit · 30/07/2017 11:06

Sad following this thread, I've never understood why sex crimes against woman aren't a hate crime

pepperminttaste · 30/07/2017 11:21

Also following. I have become very angry about the blatant downplaying of male violence since having my daughters. It's so fucking infuriating and I feel powerless. I was assaulted when I was 17 by a very good friend. It literally didn't occur to me to report it as I didn't see it as sexual assault back then. I was also very, very drunk and I still don't think anyone would believe me now. Or at least not have massive doubts. In fact, I did tell friends at the time. I was fairly vocal about what he did. It was very clear they didn't believe me over him (also their friend). Those that believed me clearly didn't see it as something worth reporting then either.

It's like society gives a not so subtle eye roll when we try to point out the inequalities experienced by and the representation of women. Like it doesn't matter! Like it doesn't have anything to do with the big picture!

JigglyTuff · 30/07/2017 11:25

OP - probably before your time but I did a survey on here (in chat so it disappeared) asking women about their experiences of sexual violence.

It made profoundly shocking and dispiriting reading. I would say that the overwhelming majority of women have experienced some kind of sexual harassment and well over half have been sexually assaulted. Very, very few of them reported because of the victim blaming culture we live in and the fear of the trauma being compounded by going through the judicial process.

And I agree with you that it's a hate crime.

WomanWithAltitude · 30/07/2017 11:30

YANBU nolove. I alternate between being angry and depressed about it.

I do feel very strongly that sexual crimes against women by men should be classified as hate crimes. We should campaign for this - does anyone know if there is an existing campaign? If not maybe we (MN) should start one.

WomanWithAltitude · 30/07/2017 11:30

YANBU nolove. I alternate between being angry and depressed about it.

I do feel very strongly that sexual crimes against women by men should be classified as hate crimes. We should campaign for this - does anyone know if there is an existing campaign? If not maybe we (MN) should start one.

Gileswithachainsaw · 30/07/2017 11:33

pepper

When I was 14/15 I received some unwanted attention from a teenageer/man. No one told he shouldn't have done it. Luckily I was allowed to at least change groups so I no longer had to be in contact with this person but he was still allowed to lead groups of secondary school kids around and somehow I was made to feel bad about it and like it was my fault for being too friendly and how he got the wrong idea etc

I don't know if my parents were told but they never mentioned it so that kind of made me think i was overreacting or that it was my fault or they would have told me straight wouldn't they? That it didn't matter what I said it did he had no right to do what he did? I just assumed that as it was just a kiss it was nothing and I have spent years feeling humiliated because I got so upset. If it was serious someone woukd have actually me down and told me or called the police etc

It's only now I look back and think hang on it should never have happened and I'd go nuts if my Dds were told they have someone the wrong idea when someone who presumably was supposed to be a safe person in a position of trust should have known better.

Rumandraisin1 · 30/07/2017 11:34

YANBU - and it should definitely be acknowledged and classified as what it is - a hate crime against women.

I happened to be reading this article on the Guardian website recently:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/nov/28/my-son-the-mass-murderer-what-did-i-miss

Thi guy went into a school room full of children that he did not know, told all the boys straight away that they could just leave and then kept the poor terrified girls hostage before murdering them.

Without minimising the hate crime against other groups, if any other group had been singled out (e.g. all the white kids can leave, I'm keeping the black kids to murder, all the Christian kids can leave, I'm going to murder the Jewish or Muslim kids), it would at least be acknowledged that that is what it was and would raise questions about prejudice within our society. In this case, there's absolutely no acknowledgement that this was a hate crime against girls and there's no discussion about what that tells us about sexism and misogyny in society . It's just the mother who is left wringing her hands about what she should have done or spotted earlier.

Steph999999 · 30/07/2017 11:37

I also believe mothers have a duty to bring women's issues to their sons.

I absolutely agree with this and if anyone on this post is asking themselves what they can do to try and change things this is absolutely the place to start. I will absolutely be educating my son on respect and what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. If I had a daughter I would be teaching her the same. It is also important for father's to be involved in this type of education and to lead by example.

Education, respect, manners, morality begins at home.

I'm not saying that this means our government/society as a whole don't need to do more though!

wrenika · 30/07/2017 11:37

I think there's a stigma to be overcome for men; I think it's hard for them to come forward and admit that they have been sexually assaulted or raped, especially if the perpetrator is female. (I know I woman can't rape by the legal definition of rape). That probably puts a skew on the statistics. They're expected to be manly and all that bullshit and never show weakness. There's so little help for male victims - so many call lines are for women, aid centres are for women. If police are called to a domestic violence incident, they remove the man regardless, even if he is the victim.

I think we need to be stricter on sexual assault, domestic violence, rape...but towards all perpetrators and all victims.

SylviaPoe · 30/07/2017 11:40

'If police are called to a domestic violence incident, they remove the man regardless, even if he is the victim.'

WTAF?

I called the police in DV incidents and they never removed my husband. What world are you living in?

MrsDustyBusty · 30/07/2017 11:42

It actually makes me very angry when women tell other women to shut up talking about sexual abuse of women because they themselves have sons. I mean, how blinkered, how thick, how obtuse is it possible for one person to be. If you are in the habit of doing that, you should think very carefully about your motives and hopefully you'll understand what you ought to be thoroughly ashamed and resolve to turn your attention away from policing women's conversation and towards doing raising your children properly.

Disgraceful behaviour.

MrsKCastle · 30/07/2017 11:44

Just posting to say that I agree. I get so frustrated when I see comments about how feminism is no longer needed, irrelevant in today's world. I was a teenager in the 90s and experienced plenty of sexual harassment and intimidation before the widespread availability of internet porn. But now, I think attitudes are much worse.

My daughters are 6 and 9 and I could honestly weep when I think about what they face in the future.

wrenika · 30/07/2017 11:44

If someone is going to be removed from the scene, in a domestic violence incident, they remove the man. If they don't need to remove someone, then they won't, but if things need to calm down and distance needs to be created, they will remove someone.
Never tested this theory out myself, never had to, but this was what a police officer acquaintance told me when chatting about the topic. So...the real world.

MrsDustyBusty · 30/07/2017 11:49

Who can imagine any reason why, in a domestic violence incident where it's necessarily for the police to remove someone, they remove the man.

It's a real head scratcher.

NoLoveofMine · 30/07/2017 11:50

JigglyTuff that's awful but unfortunately doesn't surprise me. Pretty much every girl I know has been harassed in the street and I recall a thread here where many discussed how early it started for them. I can well understand why many wouldn't report sexual assault etc, enraging though it is.

Thank you WomanWithAltitude. I think in Nottinghamshire, the police there started recording misogynist crimes as hate crimes so I'd be interested to know how that's progressed. To me it is so clearly grounded in disdain for women and girls it has to be hate crime.

Thanks to everyone who's posted - I've been reading every post and it's heartening to see how many feel likewise on this, enraging though the issue is.

OP posts:
SylviaPoe · 30/07/2017 11:50

Well what you were told is not the case, Wrenika.

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