Restaurant owner asking us to keep children quiet?

[tearsinmyeyes]

Who is being U here?

Met up with my sisters for brunch . We have ten children between five of us. We all live in different countries and today was the last day of seeing each other so we fancied
Going out for a bite to eat . We picked a local casual cafe that is large enough to accommodate 10 of us with plenty more space (including a one year old with highchair . The others were between 3-12).
We were sat on table discussing what to order . Obviously we were a party of fifteen so we weren't exactly quiet but we were talking at normal volume . The children were all seated . I noticed when we walked in there was an elderly lady and her friend and one of them rolled her eyes at us and then kept turning and glaring . When my youngest sister arrived with thenlast child she said loudly 'there's more of them now'. I approached her and said 'is there a problem ?' And she said 'there's too many of you and I can't hear my friend talk, why have you got so many children ?' I said , am sorry if you're stressed out but the children are talking at normal volume and this is a family friendly cafe.' The owner then approached us and said 'I've got lunch hour coming and last week I lost customers because a family had kids running around and misbehaving '. I asked him to look around the table and said 'all the children are sat down. We've told them to speak in soft voices and nobody Is running around misbehaving . We are also paying customers and you can't expect the children to eat in silence '. He said 'well they're all quiet now please keep it that way '. I said 'they're quiet because they're watching this conversation . I can't guarantee they'll remain silent throughout the meal'. He kept going on about it so Then we decided between us we were not comfortable to stay and left .
To be honest I felt it unreasonable to tell customers to be quiet when they weren't screaming / shouting. Of course a table of 15 is going to produce some noise but everyone was talking at a normal volume.
AIBU to think this restaurant owner was rude and to not want to eat there again ?

I suggested they 'would not' learn about fine dining from those establishments.

You weren't doing anything wrong if the kids were just talking. If I was going into somewhere and there was a large group of any kind I'd think twice - its not always down to age. As other folk have mentioned large groups of adults can be exceptionally inconsiderate and noisy.

The chap is probably best not to advertise himself as family friendly though as he seems to be the kind who automatically assumes that kids=racket. I mean what would he do if he had a 2.4 children set up and the couple of kids were making noise? Would he be family friendly in that case?

My experience is that parents of noisy and boisterous children all say that. Unfortunately, they have got used to it so it's become their normality. It doesn't make it normal though.

I have an ASD son. There have been instances where I've had to leave or remove him from somewhere for his own good. He was still as good as gold yesterday when I took them out for breakfast and a few weeks back when I toon them out for tea. The time before that didnt go so well so we didn't actually go out again for months.

My children were behaved. The OPs children were behaved.
The woman was rude from the odd for immediately goading her. (OP if you're still around - you'll learn to ignore the comments from goady random members of the public and smile gracefully). You always come off the better person then.

Sorry but...I'd hate to sit next to a table with ten kids.

Just make sure you put a review on Trip Adviser stating the cafe is NOT family friendly so that other people won't have to go through the same annoying situation. The cafe will see the review and hopefully get the point.

That is awful! I am the first to moan about unruly kids in restaurants, but that wasn't the case here. If everyone was seated, there was room in the cafe for all of you. If the same seats had been filled by half a dozen separate families, the noise would've been the same. He's being ridiculous. As for the ladies' comment about 'there's more of them now' - it makes me wonder if your family are of colour, because that sounds like something a fully paid up racist would say. Please don't eat there again OP, the cafe owner doesn't deserve your hard earned £££.

Blimey! Is that all you need to do to get another party of people chucked out of restaurant - roll your eyes and be snotty?

Just wait until the next time I'm out for a meal and a party of umpteen drunken women are at the next table singing "Happy Birthday".

I think the owner behaved shamefully. He could, as you say, waited to see whether the children misbehaved and then had a quiet word if necessary.

Personally I would have stopped there, encouraged the kids to make a racket, and got myself thrown out before I'd paid the bill .

I might have also pointed out that these kids will still be going to places to eat long after the two women are dead - does he really want to lose 60 years worth of trade?

But if children aren't taken to places like this they will never learn how to behave in them. And if they can't behave in them they won't be welcome. We all have to learn our social graces.

Just make sure you put a review on Trip Adviser stating the cafe is NOT family friendly so that other people won't have to go through the same annoying situation. The cafe will see the review and hopefully get the point

What Toys has said.

I actually think parents with young kids usually get used to noise from young kids. So I am sceptical of the claim that the table was as noisy or quiet as a table of normal well behaved adults.

Just read the opening post and nothing else (so shoot me)

And in response to that only, I can relate tearsinmyeyes. My dc are teens now, but I remember one or two occasions when we sat down with them in a restaurant when they were little and got sidelong evils from the couple next to us - and that was before anyone uttered a word. I think some people expect children to misbehave - are actively looking for it and essentially - seek and you will find. Its almost as if higher standards of behaviour are expected from them than expected of adults

To be fair the second I saw a large party of 15 (adults or children) in a cafe I'd be away from the place. If I spotted it through the window I wouldn't even go in and I'd head elsewhere. It's going to be loud and the hassle of keeping 15 orders together is going to delay my food, no thanks. And there's no chance you'll reason with that many if they're disruptive, so you're stuck with whatever kind of group you get. Somewhere larger it's fine, but certainly not a cafe.

That said, the restaurant was being unreasonable. If they'd agreed to seat 15 including that many children, they have to accept that it's going to put other customers off going. They either turn you away at the door, or they put up with you for the rest of the meal (provided you're not an arse).

I would have loved to have your party in a cafe I was in. I like watching parents and children who behave sensibly. I don't expect silence from kids but running around screeching is off. There is no reason at all to think that yours would be doing that, and no one had anything to complain about until the actually started misbehaving - which it sounds like they probably wouldn't have done.

You sound like my relatives, who could easily drum up a party of 6 mums and 20+ children 0-14yo! They wouldn't misbehave either.

YANBU OP and I was also prepared to say YABU.
Hate all this ridiculous outdated 'Children should be seen and not heard' bollocks.

I actually think parents with young kids usually get used to noise from young kids

Not really. I'm sure DS can be heard in Wrexham mid meltdown. So I'm used to it in a senss. Those ear piercing screams toddlers can do still goes right through me though. It's akin to scraping nails down a blackboard.

Wow. I'm totally with you actually.
I personally think that older people can be far less tolerant, coming from a generation that children should be 'seen and not heard'. What a rude woman! Well done you for challenging her on her behaviour.
It's unreasonable of the cafe owner to lecture you on how he expects the children to behave, based on a previous experience, when yours weren't doing anything wrong. Your money is as good as anyone else's
I would boycott the business x

Reminds me of the time our family of 4
were seated immediately next to a table of 4, two couples, well dressed, mid / late 50's. Cats bum mouth immediately from one woman closest. I immediately put husband beside DS1, &myself beside DS2 , kids as far away as possible. Kids behaved the way they usually do. Friendly chat, bit of colouring in. Cats mouth bum woman stopped as they were leaving to compliment me on beautifully behaved boys. I politely said thanks, hopefully with the expression that said what else would you expect?
I wouldn't immediately chose a cafe with a huge table of kids if I wanted a quiet lunch, but I think the cafe owner was daft to be rude to a large table, clearly ready to order

- it hadn't occurred to me that it would bother other customers . I've certainly had my eyes opened !

If you don't have children, the frequency of kiddy noise goes through you like a dentist's drill. x10 kids, would be my worse nightmare. I'd sooner go without food than eat in that environment.

As other posters have said, parents tend to be used to the noise of their children and filter it out, it may well have been louder than you thought.

You do indeed, get used to the noise DC make.

My 2 have grown up now, so whilst I used to frequent child friendly cafes/restaurants etc, I now avoid them at all costs. We always check and if there are a lot children we will go somewhere else. I don't want to eat a meal in a noisy place.

As has been said by previous pps, some people assume the worst about families with young kids. I remember my DH and me taking our two DDs out for a meal a pub with a wacky warehouse, i.e. a pub that is family friendly. We were seated next to a table with a group of elderly people out for a meal. Their reaction when they saw us was priceless and they left almost straightaway lol. Our DDs hadn't even had the chance to be noisy at that stage!

Now, I do understand that not everyone likes children. But if you don't want to be around them, why go to a pub with a wacky warehouse??? There are plenty of other places that they could have chosen for their quiet meal.

I am puzzled by the number of people on mumsnet that don't like being around kids. User, for example, that was a very harsh comment you made, no call to be so rude about all kids! Why are you constantly on mumsnet if you really don't like children? It doesn't make any sense to me!

And for the record, I do think a group of 15 people with 10 kids might put the wind up some customers. But the cafe owner in this case was very welcoming initially. It's not the fact that he had concerns that's the issue here. Why didn't he say something in the first place??

I would never go to a Wacky Warehouse without kids.

I'm with you there, brasty, I wouldn't want to! If I'm looking for a quiet meal with my DH or with a friend I would go to an Italian restaurant with a nice ambience. Definitely not a wacky warehouse lol.

What is fucking awful USER is fucking awful people with fucking awful stereotype attitudes of kids
Glad you found somewhere more accepting OP

Just because you don't want to eat whilst hearing lots of children, well being children, doesn't mean you don't like them.

When your dc are older, you'll understand! I've had years of children, when I go out now, I don't want to hear lots of them. When I hopefully have Grandchildren, things will change again.