Restaurant owner asking us to keep children quiet?

[tearsinmyeyes]

Who is being U here?

Met up with my sisters for brunch . We have ten children between five of us. We all live in different countries and today was the last day of seeing each other so we fancied
Going out for a bite to eat . We picked a local casual cafe that is large enough to accommodate 10 of us with plenty more space (including a one year old with highchair . The others were between 3-12).
We were sat on table discussing what to order . Obviously we were a party of fifteen so we weren't exactly quiet but we were talking at normal volume . The children were all seated . I noticed when we walked in there was an elderly lady and her friend and one of them rolled her eyes at us and then kept turning and glaring . When my youngest sister arrived with thenlast child she said loudly 'there's more of them now'. I approached her and said 'is there a problem ?' And she said 'there's too many of you and I can't hear my friend talk, why have you got so many children ?' I said , am sorry if you're stressed out but the children are talking at normal volume and this is a family friendly cafe.' The owner then approached us and said 'I've got lunch hour coming and last week I lost customers because a family had kids running around and misbehaving '. I asked him to look around the table and said 'all the children are sat down. We've told them to speak in soft voices and nobody Is running around misbehaving . We are also paying customers and you can't expect the children to eat in silence '. He said 'well they're all quiet now please keep it that way '. I said 'they're quiet because they're watching this conversation . I can't guarantee they'll remain silent throughout the meal'. He kept going on about it so Then we decided between us we were not comfortable to stay and left .
To be honest I felt it unreasonable to tell customers to be quiet when they weren't screaming / shouting. Of course a table of 15 is going to produce some noise but everyone was talking at a normal volume.
AIBU to think this restaurant owner was rude and to not want to eat there again ?

If the kids were genuinely being quiet, then I think the restaurant owner was being unreasonable. I'm not surprised you felt uncomfortable and left. But,I will be honest and admit that if I was looking for somewhere to eat and saw a cafe/restaurant with 10 kids all together in it,I would think twice before going in. I have had far to many meals out spoilt by excessively noisy children (and adults for that matter). And when I say noisy,I don't mean talking at normal volume and the usual high spirits of kids. I mean really screaming and shouting,so you can't hold a conversation with your friend without raising your voice,and kids running around the restaurant and generally bothering other customers. Some parents don't seem to realise that not all people are as enamoured with their kids as they are! (not a dig at you OP!)

itstoolateforthisbollox Me too. My idea of hell tbh

Anyway OP, the lesson here is that if another customer is doing something that is genuinely spoiling your meal then approach the staff and ask them to deal with it. Approaching them and asking them what their problem is instantly means you lose any moral high ground and are instead a disruptive aggressor.

shantotto Poor, hard done by kids!!! Some cafes even microwave food you know.

5 adults and 10 children. I.E. a table of 15, is not a restaurant owners ideal. I think you must know this.

He wanted you out from a money point of view. Table of 15 sounds great but actually table of 5 adults and 10 kids including little ones. Kids meals are much cheaper, some of the littler ones won't even be eating a full meal. Mums with lots of kids probably looked like you were going to settle in over cups of tea. Much better to get the lunch rush of adults in and out quickly.
7 table of 2 adults will spend vastly more than OPs group. The larger the group normally the less spend per head on food as people share stuff.

Sorry, but I can't help but feel we are getting a sanitised or perhaps somewhat idealised version of events. Generally these situations never work out well, particularly when children are involved, since what sounds average or everyday for you will typically not be for those around you. Fewer establishments now want to be seen as family friendly at the expense of pissing off regular, paying custom, so leave them out in future.

If I was in a quiet cafe and a group of kids came in I'd react in the same way as the other customer tbh because it's the most annoying thing. But then again my tolerance levels are quite low and children stress me out.

Depends on the place though. If it was like Pizza Hut then fair enough, it would be unreasonable of me to go there in the first place. If it's somewhere else it's different. All dependant on the vibe of the place.

Substitute children for elderly and people would be livid.

How pathetic "I'd walk out if there were a group of children in the cafe"

Yeah coz all children are exactly the same 🙄

Large tables are not always the revenue spinner people think they must be. You'd make more money separating that table into three smaller groups unless alcohol is involved.
Large tables dominated by children are often an absolute nightmare to serve and clean up after - and the effect it has on the other patrons can be far worse than you might think. I'd have been horrified too if I was having a quiet lunch and such a large troupe of kids and their mums arrived.
It sounds as though you were saying you could not guarantee that your children would be quiet throughout the meal, and what the restaurant owner could see was the rest of his lunchtime trade evaporating because of your massive group . He was telling you of a bad experience he had had, and seeking reassurance that you were not prepared to give.
You should have booked, many places have a minimum spend for large parties.

The old lady was rude though, but you didn't need to be confrontational and approach her.

I think you did the right thing to leave.
I expect the owner is now kicking himself but he really has only himself to blame
If the other customers expected your children to all sit in stony silence for the entire meal then they're living in the wrong fucking century!

My DSs are good in restaurants. They do not get up, they do not run around, they do not scream, they do not throw things. They chat, they laugh, they play with a couple of toys or draw with the crayons provided - they behave themselves. Our local restaurateur told me that they were considering banning children because of one particularly heinous evening, but then remembered ours and decided not to (Not a stealth boast, an out-and-out boast!) which was lovely and a huge relief as we go there about once a month to try and help keep them in business!

If any other patrons of the restaurant were constantly staring at us and making snide comments, then it would become very uncomfortable and I wouldn't be at all happy to stay in there and eat under those circumstances - fortunately, we've never come across anyone quite so rude (so far).

I wouldn't go there again, if I were you.

I guess the owner has to decide whether to upset a one-off party, or the other people who may be regulars...

What if the other people are regulars too. I took DCs out for breakfast yesterday. Couldn't use the usual family area as reserved. Sat by a window with no one else sat on the tables around us. A man comes in sits down, clocks my two kids, sat down eating their breakfast and behaving nicely, he still makes a show of getting up and sitting the very far end of the place.

A lady comes and takes his place about ten minutes later. Working hard on her laptop. My children didnt even disturb her.

Vote with your feet OP. Every time. He probably lost an absolute fortune yesterday with you and your sister and the children. Bet the other lady is one of those that nurses a £1 coffee for four hours.

Large groups can be off-putting full stop. Adults can be just as noisy as children when chatting excitedly.

In this case the issue seems to be that the group was 2/3 children. People assumed they were going to be noisy and badly behaved as we seem to be drifting towards entitled parents letting DC run riot.

But this wasn't the case here. It sounds like the restaurant wanted the DC to eat in silence not just chat in soft voices.

Unless you're in a hushed 3 star Michelin restaurant I don't think anyone should be expected to eat in silence, child or adult.

In this case the cafe owner was BU. He should have dealt with the actual situation not what he assumed might happen.

Why would you need to check you'd be welcome in a child friendly cafe?

Fair enough if you're taking 10 kids to Claridges. But not a spoons type cafe.

Love the assumption that everyone has a mcdonalds or a pizza hut nearby. I guess for some of you it may seem like that, but it doesn't make it true.

The nearest chain like that to here is much too far an awkward to get to to consider nipping there as an alternative to a local independent. The closest eaterie we have to a chain aims for the late teen/20's crowd, and there are only 4 or 5 others in the whole country.

Anything else chain-wise and you are speaking about a journey of well over 100 miles.

Unless everyone that suggests it knows where op stays?

A large group with 10 kids wouldn't put me off unless there were tons of prams and the kids were running around. Normal noises that kids make don't bother me at all.

I do think this country is strangely intolerant of children existing in the public. Not all kids behave badly in restaurants, I took my nieces and nephews to a restaurant last year - they sat on the seats throughout the whole meal and they just talked and laughed normally like everyone else.

I'm totally with the cafe owner. As other posters have said it would put me off if I walked in and saw your group.

Sharklovers - do you discriminate against any other groups of people?

I can't believe how intolerant people are of children in the UK. They were talking not running around. If you can't stand being in a cafe where other people are talking you really should be dining at home.

I don't understand why people think the OP's party wouldn't spend much. When my dc were between the ages of 3-12 they ate loads in cafes. A 10 year old will be eating an adult sized breakfast and even if you only order cakes and juice, you are still looking at spending £5 per child usually. Plus meals and drinks for the adults. Coffees are at least a couple of quid each.

I think the older couple were rude first and the OP shouldn't have to put up with eye rolling and comments that were deliberately loud enough for her to overhear and not say anything in return!

Children are part of our society and parents shouldn't have to essentially beg to take them out in public, which is what some of you are expecting by saying she should ask in advance.
Other customers have the right to not be bothered by other people's children running around etc but they don't have the right to total silence - a cafe is a public, social place. Everyone has the right to speak!
Children are going to be in cafes in the summer holidays - if the old couple don't like it, they are free to stay home.

The OP's group wouldn't have put me off going into the cafe - miserable eye rolly customers would though!
I have found that large parties of adults are far more irritating that parties with kids, esp shrieky women on hen nights and obnoxious shouty men on a stag do.

Not sating you do this, but I have seen large groups like this where the order food for the adults, but only drink tap water. The toddlers and babies are fed rice cakes or snacks from the parents' handbag, maybe they order 1 or 2 portions,if chips for the kids....

And anyway, 10 kids are likely to get very noisy!

Love the assumption that everyone has a mcdonalds or a pizza hut nearby. I guess for some of you it may seem like that, but it doesn't make it true.

I know right! Ours are an hour away at most!

I'm totally with the cafe owner. As other posters have said it would put me off if I walked in and saw your group.

Would it put you off if it were a group of adults?

Love the assumption that everyone has a mcdonalds or a pizza hut nearby.
why does it have to be a chain? I have 3 local cafes, one with an indoor softplay, 2 with an indoor/outdoor soft play.

eaterie we have to a chain aims for the late teen/20's crowd
why wouldn't that be suitable for a group of kids from toddler to 13?

I'd have been horrified too if I was having a quiet lunch and such a large troupe of kids and their mums arrived.

Horrified? Really? If you want a quite lunch why go somewhere where you know there's going to be kids? In the summer holidays?

This is what really used to nark me. A spoons we used to frequent when they did Sunday lunch. We'd always go to the family area. always.

It's a completely separate part of the main adult area. Yet you'd always have the adults coming down to hog the nice open fire in winter or sit near the giant sash windows in summer, and then have the nerve to complain when god forbid, a baby sat happily in his highchair starts gurgling happily.

I felt so sorry for that parent that day. I'm the first to call out mumtitlement. This is not it, in any shape or form. I know it's news to some posters but it's actually not the 1920s anymore and Children aren't hidden away until they reach 18 when a parent dare bring them out in public.

The owner was wrong to assume the OP would simply be like the last lot. I have a foster family couple who foster a large number of children. They are always impeccably well behaved but you still have judgementsl twats get up and leave the minute they see the couple and the kids walk through the door.

OP. I'd complain to be honest. Hope you do.

Not sating you do this, but I have seen large groups like this where the order food for the adults, but only drink tap water

Haha. There's be hell to pay if all I ordered the kids was tap water. They like feeding at least once a week.

The notion that a large family wouldn't spend much is bollocks. I have two children. Whenever we eat out the minimum I spend after dinner pudding and drink's is between £30-£40. A party of 15 is going to spend a hell of a lot more than that. No rice cakes included. DD would disown me.