To want the other parents/nursery to do more?

[PeoniesGinandBags]

Okay so here goes...

DC goes to a lovely local nursery that I've always been happy with. Great staff, lots of activities etc. About 6 months ago another child started at the nursery - M.

We've had the usual ups and downs of nursery as children adjust, start/stop biting etc etc so I'm used to dealing with 'issues' and appreciate (being a teacher myself) that no child is perfect, two sides to every story etc.

However... M is a bloody nightmare.

On 3 occasions M has assaulted my child - yesterday getting hold of DC's hair with two hands and hitting it off the dinner table. These are not isolated cases. Two weeks ago I was collecting DC from nursery and I witnessed M casually walking over to another child, pushing them over and walking off. A week prior to that there was an incident involving M putting her hands around the neck of the same child she pushed over.

When I've spoken to nursery before about M they told me that it's 'in hand' and that 'someone was coming that day to do an observation of her'. I don't know who this would be?

To compound the issue (for me anyway) I witnessed M having a temper tantrum as Mum was collecting them from nursery. M wanted a toy that belonged to another child and M's Mum simply said to the other child, "Can you just let M have the toy for the night?" followed by lots of other attempts to 'reason' with M.

I'm sick to the back teeth of DC doing what they should, reporting things to the staff, not shouting/hitting back but to be honest enough is enough. It just seems that M is out of control. I can see there are issues for her but things seem to be escalating to an alarming degree.

Any advice? I called nursery this morning ahead of dropping DC off and said that I wanted to escalate my concerns, that we had had a bad night with DC after what had happened yesterday etc and I'm waiting to hear back from them. I have suggested (but don't know at all if this would be helpful) that I want a meeting with a senior member of staff at nursery as well as M's parents so that we can discuss strategies for a way forward (to be blunt - stop pandering to the tantrums and see the effect this is having on others). ARGH!!! I'm hopping mad but trying hard not to be unreasonable.

AIBU???

And no I wasn't suggesting that if a NT gets hurt they should be told to get over it. I have no idea how you could reach that conclusion. You brought up bullying and school refusal, which as I've already said, is far more likely in SEN kids.

I'm confused - you are a teacher and your dc is 4, so starting school in September and you will be off for the summer now, why don't you just withdraw your dc from nursery? Why are you bothering with this? Is M going to the same school as your dc?

Surely this is a bit late to worry?

"The very fact she's being observed suggests otherwise."

She could be being observed by social services? Or because she's been a victim of a crime (sexual abuse)? A child being observed doesn't necessarily mean that they are being assessed for Special Needs.

It's highly unlikely anyone would be coming to observe a child unless is was very strongly felt by a health professional (and probably more than one) that there was something more than bad parenting going on.

Yep. All DSs came on the same day and had a multidisciplinary meeting together afterwards. SALT/CAMHS/SENCO etc. Even I wasn't told of the date so I don't believe for a minute OP was told someone was coming in to do obs. On the off chance there is some truth in it, it's incredibly unprofessional of the nursery. As its divulging possible sensitive info. Which you should know already if you're a teacher.

A joint meeting!!??!! The nursery sounds very odd organising this. I think you should deal with the nursery direct and the nursery should deal with the other family direct.

I totally understand your concerns for your child but you sound very judgmental about the other parents. You also seem to lack an understanding about what might be going on with the other child.

My son has autism and I'm sure at times I appear to others to be a rubbish parent becuase I have to parent him in a different way - sometimes this means being more firm and sometimes it means being more lenient than how others might parent depending on the circumstances. When my son was 5 he used to hit people because he found the world chaotic and didn't understand other children. He thought children who were trying to play with him were trying to hurt him - so he lashed out to defend himself. He's improved hugely over the years thanks to all the help from us and his school. He doesn'thurt oeople anymore as he is learning coping skills. The vast majority of parents at the school have been accepting and understanding.

She could be being observed by social services

That's not what being observed means. If it was a welfare concern. It would be done away from the class setting. Usually in a separate room with trained safeguarding staff. The OP indicates that M is being observed, assumingly, in a class environment, which means there are clear concerns around M's social skills.

She could be being observed by social services? Or because she's been a victim of a crime (sexual abuse)? A child being observed doesn't necessarily mean that they are being assessed for Special Needs.

Those would all be SEN too, if they affect her behaviour in an educational setting. Though they are not disabilities.

Also, I'd be very concerned about having my child in a nursery that was so happy to divulge personal information relating to a child to other families.

In fact, I think I'd be making Ofsted aware of such behaviour.

I would move my Child to a new Nursery where all children's safety and well being were paramount, and all parental concerns taken seriously

I am frankly utterly stunned that a nursery has arranged a meeting with you and the other parents that is such poor practice it's below amateur.

It's awful that your child is so upset and you have every right to complain, ask how they will keep her safe and to ask them for a plan along those lines. You have zero right to any information about M. You have no right to give the parents your opinion or to say how you would handle the situation.

I work in early years and I have dealt with many children who have SN and/or exhibit challenging behaviour. When other children's parents come to me and complain I do everything I can to protect their children even if that means getting in harms way instead of them. I would never discuss the other child's needs with them, never.

On the flip side, if this aspect of your nursery's practice is this poor it might be an indication of poor practice in othere areas...like handling unwanted behaviour, record keeping and identifying SN. Worth thinking about.

Kleinzeit

Hmmm, interesting, I didn't know that. Is a victim-impact observation classed as SEN then?

AwaywiththePixies27 I know children who've been "observed" in schools for the reasons I stated - so it does happen actually.

I've reached the following conclusions:

That the OP is not a teacher. Nope.

That the nursery haven't done a joint meeting but the OP would very much like one, and posted here for ideas.

YANBU. The school should be doing more to keep your dc and the other dc safe and it sounds like this is not happening. Sen or no Sen, that child should not be strangling and hitting other dc. All those telling you M is none of your concern, of course its your concern because your dc is being hurt by M making it very much your concern.

As for a group meeting. This actually happened in my dd nursery a good few years back, where a child was being violent on a daily basis mainly towards my dd. The teacher called in us and the other childs parents because they had worked with the child and with the parents and nothing was changing. The parents were lovely and at their wits end tbh and it really helped having a group discussion so we were all on the same page. There was no animosity or blaming, we all wanted the same end result.

It eventually stopped when other children started defending themselves and hitting back. The mother was so relieved her childs reign of terror had stopped. He is still a bit of ahandful but no longer violent! And no Sen btw.

If these types of behaviour are not dealt with at this age it is only going to get worse and so surely anything that is going to stop that happening is a positive thing.

Prizes for missing all points go to requestingsunshine

Shocked beyond belief that you are going to be having a meeting with the other child's parents! Is this actually true? If so it sounds like the nursery don't have a tit of a clue about what constitutes good practice. Also, poor M's parents having to be subjected to this! I bet they felt they didn't have a choice. How mortifying. Losing sympathy for your situation actually. You just need to know from the nursery what safeguards are in place to protect your child - what on earth is a meeting with M's parents going to achieve? If the nursery don't give a satisfactory answer then take your child out - don't subject the other poor parents to this. They are probably worried sick about their child and a judgemental mother isn't going to help.

So by the same token is it disablist to assume that someone with indistinct speech and an unusual gait is drunk or high until you know for sure if they have a brain injury for example?

Bravo for facetiousness, but actually yes, I'd say that it is. Making assumptions is never helpful.

I would move my Child to a new Nursery where all children's safety and well being were paramount, and all parental concerns taken seriously

this.

Runninglikeamummy what points have I missed exactly? I have read all of the OPs posts and given my opinion and also experience of a group meeting in a nursery because of a violent child - group meetings work.

Or is it that I didn't address your latest post? How pathetic

Just because you experienced this happening in a nursery setting still doesn't mean it is good practice. OFSTED would be very unimpressed.

There was no animosity or blaming, we all wanted the same end result.

That's lovely requestingsunshine and I'm glad it helped your situation. But where the OP is talking about 'just discipline the child ffs' and 'sometimes behaviour is as a result of a social setting'. It's quite clear this probably will be anything but amicable.

So either:

1.The OP is telling lies about the meeting to save face

1. The OP is completely honest meaning therefore that the nursery should not be allowed to operate because of breaking confidentiality

And either:

1. The OP is not a teacher

1. The OP is a terrible teacher because of her lack of understanding and empathy for pupils when all they need is "just discipline the child FFS"

DD has a similar child in her class - got worse not better - not helped by the lack of staff - especially at lunch times

Poor boy was wound up and would throw chairs scissors swear shout and scream.

The school were useless at dealing with him - his needs clearly weren't by being met -

I moved DD to another school and so did several other parents - there's only so much you can accept when your child's safety and education are put at risk.

There was nothing I could do to protect DD other than put my faith in the teachers - their hands were also tied

This lack of funding is causing huge problems IMO

I cannot understand how anyone thinks it is ok for another child to be repeatedly attacked.
If this was happening in a mainstream school, the child doing the attacking would be suspended.
Why isn't this happening with the nursery age child?

I understand that all children are entitled to an education, but if a care plan is not in place to ensure everyone's safety surely the child should be removed until one is.

Ok let me continue - DD came home from school angry - she went on a rampage throwing her bedroom out of the window - she was screaming ans crying 'in not going back there and you can't make me'

What do you suggest I do in that situation? Calming explain 'he can't help it?'

It was causing huge issues at home - we'd limped on 4 years -

We never blamed him - but when a young child is asking you 'why don't they DO something' and I have no answers - then moving is the only way forward.

I wish we'd done it sooner