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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask what policy your Uni has on women's spaces?

646 replies

SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 20:31

Those of you who have recent work or study experience.

Would you mind listing institution names and their policies?

NC if you need to of course.

OP posts:
OhLaVache · 26/07/2017 23:17

Loops - when I was younger, I had more time for that kind of radical feminism. Then I actually met some trans women and gained some insight into what it was like to be part of such a socially excluded minority and that totally changed my attitude.

Loopsdefruits · 26/07/2017 23:18

Bam I am cis? Next argument.

Original poster
SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 23:18

You are legion curry SmileWink

OP posts:
bellasuewow · 26/07/2017 23:21

Well said curry

IAmEatingACurry · 26/07/2017 23:21

she has to be the one with the prefixes ??

But what's wrong with the trans prefix?

I'm quite happy as a transwoman. Why do I need to get rid of the prefix? Did you ever consider that maybe some of us like the prefix?

Getting rid of the word trans just leaves a very bad taste in my mouth tbh. It feels like you're trying to erase us somehow...you're basically saying there's no transgender folk here people...just women and men. And that's just wrong. I don't want to be erased.

Loopsdefruits · 26/07/2017 23:22

curry yes, you are a trans woman, I am glad you are fine with not being granted the status of woman, many trans women are not. Many trans people find the designation only being applied to them to be hugely 'othering' and very offensive. By using cis to identify myself, I am just indicating that my gender identity matches my biological sex.

Ohla right? I can't imagine being so intolerant of a group that is actively asking for these modifications. It seems so selfish.

bambambini · 26/07/2017 23:22

Looos. - ?Well i'm not cis. I'm just plain woman as in born female and now an adult. Vast majority of folk understand that.

Loops -,How old are you?

confoozed · 26/07/2017 23:22

I don't want to be renamed a ciswoman either. I am a biological woman if an additional descriptor is nesessary.

I think many women are pissed off as we have had labels and limitations forced upon us for millenia and do not want another one just as it appears we are gaining some semblance of equality (with clearly still a long way to go).

I understand that gay and lesbian and people with gender/ sex identity issues have had the same/ similar experiences with exclusion and opression but making this more about gender not less is wrong.

IAmEatingACurry · 26/07/2017 23:24

Saying that transwomen are women and transmen are men is just wrong. I don't want to say it's transphobic because I feel like that word gets thrown around too easily these days...but I know it just feels wrong.

It's erasure.

It's erasing transpeople.

And that is just wrong.

Loopsdefruits · 26/07/2017 23:24

curry nobody wants to remove the word trans? We just add a word to also define biological females that ID as women, so that there's not a 'subclass' of less real women. You are still a trans woman, because trans and cis is about your bio sex/gender relationship.

BetsyM00 · 26/07/2017 23:25

how many attacks on cis women have been carried out by trans women in toilets? Zero.

Don't want to derail the thread but can't let this go by. See:
randomstabbing.tumblr.com/post/144989720467/the-tip-of-the-iceberg-please-add-to-this-list

Lots more instances and lists on gender critical reference thread.

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/07/2017 23:25

By using cis to identify myself, I am just indicating that my gender identity matches my biological sex. And you are perfectly able to use that label for yourself. I believe gender is harmful bullshit and don't think it's got anything to do with my sex. I am a woman. My sex is female.

Original poster
SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 23:26

You are still a trans woman, because trans and cis is about your bio sex/gender relationship.

Is this "cisplaining"? Confused

OP posts:
Jijhebtseksmetezels · 26/07/2017 23:27

Ciswoman is offensive.

The violence trans women experience is from men. Why do women have to budge up?

OhLaVache · 26/07/2017 23:27

Curry - I just want everyone to be able to identify in the way that feels right for them... certainly not trying to argue for a simple man/woman thing. I guess I have had trans friends being very upset by being told they were not women and that's the place I was coming from. Anyway, they don't need me to speak for them and I'm not about to tell you how to define yourself! What I'm not ok with is transphobia in relation to toilet access, which is where this all started...

Loopsdefruits · 26/07/2017 23:27

bambam 26, why?

confoozed cis has nothing to do with your biological sex, it's just a word to describe the relationship between one's gender identity and their sex at birth.

Saying that, nobody should be forced to ID as something they do not wish to, so I will attempt to not use it to describe people other than myself, my friends, or anyone in this thread who chooses to use it.

MissBax · 26/07/2017 23:27

My uni have just changed one set of ladies toilets to "any gender" toilets 😑

Loopsdefruits · 26/07/2017 23:28

serf shit, maybe! I'm sorry curry, my bad!

IAmEatingACurry · 26/07/2017 23:28

many trans women are not.

I have yet to meet a transwoman in real life who isn't happy with the trans prefix and trust me, I've met a lot.

Many trans people find the designation only being applied to them to be hugely 'othering' and very offensive.

Yet you use the term cis. Interesting.

AssassinatedBeauty · 26/07/2017 23:29

Will you stop using cis to refer to other women when you don't know if they identify with your gender construct? Refer to yourself as cis by all means, but it's extremely presumptive to use it about all other women. I don't identify with a gender construct, and I am female. I am not cis.

IAmEatingACurry · 26/07/2017 23:29

What I'm not ok with is transphobia in relation to toilet access, which is where this all started...

But why is it transphobic to not want people with XY chromosomes in the womens toilets?

Original poster
SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 23:30

Okay you've made your point loop but perhaps in the interests of cordial discussion you could now respect the identity preferences everyone is expressing?

Specifically the widespread objections to "cis".

But (even more so) explaining curry's identity to her?

OP posts:
Original poster
SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 23:31

X post with your apology loop.

OP posts:
BetsyM00 · 26/07/2017 23:31

bambambini - I'd like stats on how violent TW are in comparison to other males. Also their rates for committing sexual assault.

The oft quoted Swedish survey is here which concludes that transwomen retain male patterns of criminality.

There is also more recent research here on trans inmates in California prisons - the Findings section on page 844 suggests there are differences between transgender prisoners and the larger population of male inmates - a higher proportion of transgender inmates classified as Level 3 and Level 4 (high security), a higher proportion of property crimes committed, a higher proportion of mental health problems and a higher proportion of sex offenders.

IAmEatingACurry · 26/07/2017 23:31

nobody wants to remove the word trans?

The poster I quoted was going on about the unfairness of only transwomen having a prefix.

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