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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask what policy your Uni has on women's spaces?

646 replies

SerfTerf · 26/07/2017 20:31

Those of you who have recent work or study experience.

Would you mind listing institution names and their policies?

NC if you need to of course.

OP posts:
dontslouchdarling · 27/07/2017 19:52

But that would intellectually dishonest wouldn't it?

A transwoman CANNOT be a biological woman. Why doesn't accepting them as a transwoman mean accepting them for who they are rather than colluding in a pretence that they are something they can never be?

IAmEatingACurry · 27/07/2017 19:53

You would be accepting them as a woman.

But a lot of us don't want to be accepted as women.

I've said this already but I'll say it again; saying transwomen are women just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It feels like we're being erased. What's wrong with just being accepted as transwomen? What's wrong with being trans?

WildernessWhale · 27/07/2017 19:54

AB

No, nobodies boundaries should ever be ignored (although many of you seem happy to ignore those of transpeople) But there shouldn't be a blanket exclusion on trans people - they should be included in any planning, facilities provided, shared facilities provided, they should be given the opportunity to live in male (for transmen) and female (for transwomen) accomodation at universities.

dontslouchdarling · 27/07/2017 19:54

Sorry that was in response to the post at 19.48

IAmEatingACurry · 27/07/2017 19:55

Why doesn't accepting them as a transwoman mean accepting them for who they are rather than colluding in a pretence that they are something they can never be?

YY to this.

venusinscorpio · 27/07/2017 19:55

So other people's boundaries have to be ignored in order to improve the mental health of trans women?

A hearty fuck that.

cardibach · 27/07/2017 19:56

And if that is beyond another person's boundaries, Wilderness?

WildernessWhale · 27/07/2017 19:56

Curry

And many do - My point was more about accepting and individual's decision on how they define / refer to themselves.

I don't want to erase trans; i am happy to refer to as women, transwomen, but it's down to the person who I am referring to (usually I ask) to let me know.

ArcheryAnnie · 27/07/2017 19:58

Why should women be forced to be at risk (since transwomen commit the same rate of violent crime as men) in order to validate someone else? When do women get to put there own safety first?

Wilderness you might be interested to know that suicide is the biggest killer of young women in the world. But they are only girls so I suppose their safety and mental health isn't that important, hey?

venusinscorpio · 27/07/2017 19:58

they should be given the opportunity to live in male (for transmen) and female (for transwomen) accomodation at universities.

Absolutely not. You'd put me at 19, someone who'd just come out of a violently abusive relationship, in a shared bedroom with a male?

WildernessWhale · 27/07/2017 19:58

:And if that is beyond another person's boundaries, Wilderness?:

Well what do you do in any other situation where there is a disagreement over personal boundaries? You either resolve it and come to an understanding, or you walk away. It's no different.

If you don't want to use a gender-neutral toilet, then don't. But don't feel transwomen and transmen shouldn't have the option to do so.

WhiteMane · 27/07/2017 19:58

Suicide rate of trans people is often quoted from mermaids website. They claim this is from a study of over 2000 trans people when it's actually a study of over 2000 people, 27 of whom were trans. That's hardly conclusive suicide risk.

WildernessWhale · 27/07/2017 19:59

I have never said the safety and mental health of women and girls is not important - please stop alluding to things I have not said.

AssassinatedBeauty · 27/07/2017 19:59

You're exactly advocating for women's boundaries to be ignored, if they don't want to share vulnerable spaces with male bodied people. I suppose you'd expect women who feel that way to defer to trans women and not use the space/service if they can't validate the trans women's identity? And therefore be excluded themselves. But that's probably what they deserve for being horrible transphobes.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 27/07/2017 20:00

Whale How do you tell the difference between a transwomen and a man pretending to be a transwoman to access female spaces?

venusinscorpio · 27/07/2017 20:00

As long as female spaces (and male) are provided no one is going to have any problem with an additional gender neutral space are they? Straw man. Disingenuous. You know that it isn't what people are talking about.

IAmEatingACurry · 27/07/2017 20:02

But don't feel transwomen and transmen shouldn't have the option to do so.

Nobody has said that we shouldn't have the option of using a gender neutral (you means unisex?) toilet Confused

HamletsSister · 27/07/2017 20:04

A suicide attempt or suicide itself is the most extreme expression of a mental health issue. When my boyfriend killed himself it was after years of depression and a physical condition he could not cope with.

He was part of the (then - not sure about now) very high incidences of suicide amongst men aged 18-32. At the time (early 1990s) men of that age were considered at particular risk fir 2 reasons. 1They rarely sought help. 2. They rarely attempted suicide, they were always successful, choosing failsafe methods (gun, cliff) and not less successful (pills).

And mental health issues covers a huge range of things, just as physical health does.

But me telling lies to someone to make them feel like they are something they are not is not really very helpful. I told my boyfriend the truth - that his condition did not matter, that he was clever and successful. That didn't help. So not sure how lies will help.

BTW not looking for sympathy. It was a long time ago.

You can't solve someone's feelings about themselves by telling them they are something they are not. But, accept them for who they are. Love them as they are. That, surely, should help.

WildernessWhale · 27/07/2017 20:04

AB,

No, I am not advocating for anyone's boundaries to be ignored. I am actually advocating for the opposite.

I don't feel anyone needs to "verify" anyone's identity for them to be able to go for a piss in a gender neutral toilet, or a female toilet. If someone identifies as female than that is enough for me.

SpartacusSaiman · 27/07/2017 20:05

(although many of you seem happy to ignore those of transpeople)

What boundries are you reffering to?

SpartacusSaiman · 27/07/2017 20:06

I don't feel anyone needs to "verify" anyone's identity for them to be able to go for a piss in a gender neutral toilet, or a female toilet. If someone identifies as female than that is enough for me.

Its not enough for many. And you are ignoring their boundries.

FerretsAreFeminists · 27/07/2017 20:06

If someone identifies as female than that is enough for me.

I don't identify as female. Am I still allowed to use the womens toilets?

WildernessWhale · 27/07/2017 20:09

HamletsSister

Sorry to hear about your boyfriend. It's a really fucking horrible thing to go through (and I am speaking from experience too).

I just don't feel it is telling lies, I do believe that people know themselves better than anyone else does.

AssassinatedBeauty · 27/07/2017 20:10

"I don't feel anyone needs to "verify" anyone's identity for them to be able to go for a piss in a gender neutral toilet, or a female toilet."

I didn't say anything like that at all. I was referring to the fact that you expect women to silently accept male bodied people in shared facilities, in order to validate those male bodied people's identity as women in order to protect their mental health. Women must put their own boundaries aside or be excluded from those facilities, because validating the identity of trans women is more important.

WildernessWhale · 27/07/2017 20:13

FerretsAreFeminists

Do you identify as someone who should use the female bathrooms in your view of yourself?

If the answer is yes, then I wouldn't have a problem with you using them.

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