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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Man in ladies toilets

662 replies

ItsAHardKn0ckLife · 26/07/2017 10:23

Okay I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable here, husband works away, have an unwell toddler and I'm a little sleep deprived. So not sure if emotions are getting the better of me.

Popped into our local M&S, DS (2yo) in tow. Needed to use the toilet before shopping. Walk into the ladies (small bathroom, only 2 cubicles) to an older man and woman (late 60's at a guess) changing a babies nappy. I stopped in my tracks, confused, checked I'd definitely walked into the right toilets.
I said "you are aware this is the ladies?"
"Yes" the woman replied, "have you got a problem?"
"Erm, well yes actually I have"
Cue lots of tutting and huffing and puffing whilst I waited patiently for him to leave.
On their way out of the door I was told I was being "absolutely ridiculous" and "totally unreasonable".
In hindsight I probably should have ignored, but I was feeling pretty pissed off so I went to inform a member of staff.
The couple were standing near me and they were shouting that I'm a hypocrite as I took my DS in there with me. Again repeating that I was unreasonable etc and what did I expect them to do? They then walked off.

I ended up crying Blush

The staff were lovely and offered me a very nice cup of tea. I apologised for being an emotional wreck and causing drama.

So was I wrong for being unhappy about this? Would you have said something or just turned a blind eye to him being in there?

OP posts:
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/07/2017 09:05

Second happened to my friend myrtle

I think she just screamed though

That's probably what i would do

allegretto · 27/07/2017 09:06

No one complains about lack of facilities
No one asks for them to be cleaned
No one asks if there is anywhere else

So you really think they are going to clean/build toilets at that very moment just to help you out? Confused

Of course not! Luckily most women are reasonable and would have no problem with a man changing a nappy outside the cubicles. This thread is hysterical and not in a funny way.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/07/2017 09:08

Of course they can clean them

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/07/2017 09:09

Facilities should always be in a state where they can be used. People are hired specifically to check and maintain the toilets it's merely asking someone to do their job isn't it?

theEagleIsLost · 27/07/2017 09:18

hmmm. What age do boy's turn in to males?

I always thought it was fine till about 8 or just before.

However I had another mother get very upset and report me when DS was 4 and a very small 4 at that.

I was stuck I had two DD - toddler and five year old as well by myself with a hugh queue in ladies in a shopping precinct - so had to convenience Ds to come in ladies as couldn't trust Ds to go into men’s and no wonder off if we didn’t immediately appear.

She was in front of us in queue with her two DD – looking somewhere between 10 – and 13 but they wouldn’t let us go ahead to get out of there – no obvious reason for this girls weren’t bothered and they were white British. I’m afraid with wet pants imminent – I was polite but didn’t leave.

Sent staff in while we were still in queue – they looked sheepish didn’t speak to us and left. Never had that before or since and it upset DS who wanted to use men’s anyway like at school. Apparently I was unreasonable to leave house with no male to take Ds to loo Confused.

I was taken very aback though DH found a nearby public loo which has sign saying at 8 they had to use loo of right sex – forget how it was phased – but made me less anxious about days out without him though I did get over it.

I think like Op I'd have been a bit taken back at full grown man in woman's loo though - though a polite explination I'd have understood.

HoneyDragon · 27/07/2017 09:20

Why couldn't you either wait a few minutes (without making a fuss) or go in the cubicle with them there?

All she did was ask if they knew they were in the ladies. The other woman asked "do you gave a problem" the op replied she did. At that point it should've been acknowledged they were making a person with every right to be there uncomfortable, apologised/explained and got on with the job and got out.

Instead when the op exercised her choice and right to wait for the male to leave the huffing puffing etc started. But we still live in a society where woman are expected not to make any fuss. The male expected this, because it was a female space, and his presence should not be fussed at, and they kicked off at the op because his presence was not welcomed by her. Whatever their reasons for being in the women's toilet were that man has only emphasised why there is a need for female only spaces.

He felt his right to be there legitimised criticising the op for objecting. He felt his needs trumped everyone else's even if they need was to help his wife.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/07/2017 09:21

I always thought it was around 7/8 too.

Hunted68 · 27/07/2017 09:26

I hope none of you lot have condemning the bloke have been in a mans toilet. Nightclubs, music concerts etc etc. Happened loads of times. Do men's toilets have changing facilities? I've never noticed any.

HoneyDragon · 27/07/2017 09:27

Also I sick of the justification of not all men are xyz perverts/creeps.

I know this and rely on this since sending ds into the gents alone since he was around six and this was his preference. Meaning I'm hoping if he gets stuck in a cubicle of can't switch on a tap a friendly male would help him. Just as I've helped younger girls out when their dad is hovering outside the ladies.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/07/2017 09:43

hunted

Yes lots of men's toilets have nappy changing facilities

allegretto · 27/07/2017 09:52

Of course they can clean them
Not necessarily straightaway. Unless they have a cleaner on hand after every use like John Lewis used to, those were the days

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/07/2017 09:58

You don't know til you ask though do you. Least it would show some awareness that you should just walk into the ladies loos.

Kinda ironic really that moaning about how dirty the men's is, it still doesn't click how maybe women don't want men making the same mess of ours.

Even the men try and avoid the men's and can't understand why women want to avoid men.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/07/2017 09:59

Shouldn't

User843022 · 27/07/2017 10:03

'But we still live in a society where woman are expected not to make any fuss. The male expected this, because it was a female space, and his presence should not be fussed at'

Or, as said earlier the op's innocent 'Erm, well yes actually I have' may have been said with a stroppy glare and through clenched teeth thus setting the scene. It really isn't because women are expected 'not to make a fuss', it's because some people cant resolve any issue without unpleasantness. That applies to all involved in the op.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/07/2017 10:05

But it was up to him to not cause the problem in the first place not the op to manage her reactions.

Bigoldsupermoon · 27/07/2017 10:09

My MIL can't carry my kids on her own. My FIL will not change a nappy. If my PIL were out with my child then I imagine they'd do exactly what this couple did. They'd both be in the changing area.

So because your FIL refuses to carry out basic childcare when looking after his DGC, women should put up with him being in the ladies'?

Bigoldsupermoon · 27/07/2017 10:12

Fwiw, OP, I don't think YABU. Men shouldn't be in the women's toilets: they're for women.

I think you were spot on for saying something, and I'm sorry you've had the typical reaction of being punished for being a woman asserting boundaries.

Zephyr01 · 27/07/2017 10:15

I know this and rely on this since sending ds into the gents alone since he was around six and this was his preference. Meaning I'm hoping if he gets stuck in a cubicle of can't switch on a tap a friendly male would help him. Just as I've helped younger girls out when their dad is hovering outside the ladies.

Whilst this is ok in theory, most men won't go near a kid that isn't theirs for fear of pointing fingers and allegations.

PhilTheSahd · 27/07/2017 10:34

IME it is rare or at least uncommon having changing facilities in the gents. A large amount of time it's a fold up table in the disabled loo (but with a sign on the door saying the room is both) or it's in its own little room.

Sometimes two people changing a baby is easier. If there's been a nappy leak or a big load of diaroeah and you're trying to change clothes as well without getting mess everywhere then an extra set of hands makes it much easier and less stressful.
Also if the baby is wriggling lots and you are exhausted then having someone to help hold them still or pass you things makes it much easier.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/07/2017 10:43

phil

Yes i think you are right about it being in separate rooms or in the disabled

Although in a lot of the newer shops is definitely in both

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/07/2017 10:46

But lots of things are easier with 3 people but you can't keep putting your convenience above making others uncomfortable

Even if none of the other options were viable he still had the option of asking a staff member or even another member of the public to watch the door for a.min.

I'd have happily done that for someone.

The fact he didn't even apologise and had the nerve to have a go meant that he saw no problem with his actions, and delt perfectly entitled to be there even though he really wasn't.

That's the issue.

PhilTheSahd · 27/07/2017 11:23

It is good to see new places are thinking about the need for men to be able to change a baby without having to go in the ladies - more comfortable for everyone that way.

Personally in a shop like an M&S I'd expect them to have a room I could change dd in, and on finding that they don't I'd just get on with it without causing a fuss or involving strangers.

I can't tell from this thread if op was being polite or came across as starting on him for being there. My feeling is that probably both where being a bit unreasonable - op making a fuss about him being there and him for not apologising

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/07/2017 11:28

Our shopping centre has an entire floor of loos and a separate changing area and inside the changing area is a breast feeding room (has a door so can he closed for privacy) disabled loos are in the main loos as it's all one level and space is wide enough for wheel chairs and there are a a couple of large cubicles big enough for a wheelchair and any kids if they have them.

Floisme · 27/07/2017 11:29

Two words would probably have resolved this:
'I'm sorry'.
But it wasn't up to the op to say it.

DeleteOrDecay · 27/07/2017 11:31

You have no idea what issues either has, and neither may have been capable of changing the baby alone.

And this couple have no idea why the op and other women might feel uncomfortable with the presence of a man in the ladies. It goes both ways, just because this couple seem to be unable to change a nappy by themselves doesn't mean they get to impose that on everyone else.

who was really polite and apologised for being in there but all the gents loos were blocked.

Maybe this situation wouldn't have escalated if the couple had offered op the same courtesy of apologising. Instead they decided to get rude and huffy.

As for op 'making a fuss' why shouldn't she? There was a man in the WOMENS toilets, he shouldn't have been there, she was right to question it.