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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Man in ladies toilets

662 replies

ItsAHardKn0ckLife · 26/07/2017 10:23

Okay I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable here, husband works away, have an unwell toddler and I'm a little sleep deprived. So not sure if emotions are getting the better of me.

Popped into our local M&S, DS (2yo) in tow. Needed to use the toilet before shopping. Walk into the ladies (small bathroom, only 2 cubicles) to an older man and woman (late 60's at a guess) changing a babies nappy. I stopped in my tracks, confused, checked I'd definitely walked into the right toilets.
I said "you are aware this is the ladies?"
"Yes" the woman replied, "have you got a problem?"
"Erm, well yes actually I have"
Cue lots of tutting and huffing and puffing whilst I waited patiently for him to leave.
On their way out of the door I was told I was being "absolutely ridiculous" and "totally unreasonable".
In hindsight I probably should have ignored, but I was feeling pretty pissed off so I went to inform a member of staff.
The couple were standing near me and they were shouting that I'm a hypocrite as I took my DS in there with me. Again repeating that I was unreasonable etc and what did I expect them to do? They then walked off.

I ended up crying Blush

The staff were lovely and offered me a very nice cup of tea. I apologised for being an emotional wreck and causing drama.

So was I wrong for being unhappy about this? Would you have said something or just turned a blind eye to him being in there?

OP posts:
Gileswithachainsaw · 26/07/2017 23:12

Perhaps it should be standard for establishments to come up with some kind of area a person could be escorted to?

Most of the changing facilities are literally just a fold up table that is fixed to the wall so there's no real reason why one couldn't be put in the men's really.

Anotherdayanotherdollar · 26/07/2017 23:17

Maybe the child was too heavy for the woman to lift.
Maybe the man identified as female.
Maybe the op should have waited a few mins.

Can't say his presence would bother me personally.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 23:20

Just popped back

Nice to see that the thread seems to be balancing out, it was feeling a bit one sided earlier

Bit concerned about those getting confused about the difference between 2 year old boys and grown men

Put it this way if a two year old poked his head under the door i would say 'go find mummy sweetheart'

If a grown man did it i would say 'FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING PERVERT!!! GET YOUR FUCKING HEAD OUT OF MY CUBICLE BEFORE I STAMP ON YOUR FUCKING FACE'

Or something similar

I am off to bed so will leave you with giles and delete who are pretty much saying what i would (though i am concerned that giles hasnt watched Guardians of The Galaxy...slightly worried about our future friendship)

ThinkOfTheHorses · 26/07/2017 23:22

You're ridiculous

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/07/2017 23:24

Who horses me?

Its been said to be fair

Gileswithachainsaw · 26/07/2017 23:39

We have absolutely no idea of anything the op may or may not have been through that may make her more wary of the situation than others.

I have a nearly 11 yr old dd who is obviously old enough to go to the toilet on her own so where's I could shrug it off and not be worried she still has the right to go to the loo and not expect to see a man when she went to wash her hands.

I am not some man hating freak quite the opposite actualky I get on better with men than with women. But thankfully none of my friends think they have the right to make others feel uncomfortable when there are valid alternatives and dare to suggest anyone who objects is ridiculous...

PhilTheSahd · 26/07/2017 23:57

Most of the places I've encountered where the only changing place is in the ladies are either fairly small places, or traditional tea shops/ rural pubs. So either there simply isn't room to have a cubicle big enough for even a pull down table or the building was built back when men couldn't possibly change a baby and the modern owners can't /don't want to change it. One or two others I've encountered where under new management at the time or soon where

Nationcreationbusstation · 27/07/2017 00:50

Grown men shouldn't be in the women's toilets. Disabled toilets, according to MN consensus, should NEVER be used by anyone who isn't disabled even if you have as good a reason to do so as elderly man in the OP had to be using the women's toilets (assuming he had to help change the nappy). Disabled toilets are empty at least half the time. But for some reason women should accept men in what's supposed to be a female only space, as if there's no reason for it being a female only space.

HiJenny35 · 27/07/2017 02:25

YABU he was jelling with a nappy, he wasn't in there using the toilet, you have no idea why she needed help. The men's may have had urinals so the women's was the best choice. No reason to be so outraged, you could see the situation, couldn't you just wait a few minutes. My husband has had to take our daughter into women's toilets before when the men's have had urinals and the only cubical in the men's was vile and he was on his own with her. This clearly wasn't a treating situation, he was changing a babies nappy.

Hapaxlegomenon · 27/07/2017 05:45

duracellred

A man aged 60 changing a nappy with his wife in the ladies - absolutely disgusting.

Shock really?? Wtaf

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 27/07/2017 06:57

The men's may have had urinals

What's that got to do with it? Surely the only bit that matters is a changing table?

Pengggwn · 27/07/2017 07:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Floisme · 27/07/2017 07:12

I think it's fascinating that so many posters are blaming the woman when it's the man who was in the wrong place (and didn't even have the decency to acknowledge it). The world in microcosm.

Lostwithinthehills · 27/07/2017 07:30

I wonder whether this couple considered for even a moment using the changing table in the gents? I would hazard a guess that they didn't, that the automatic assumption was that it was okay for the man in question to impose his presence in the ladies. The assumption is always that women have to make the concession. If any consideration had been made to using the changing table in the gents my guess is it was rejected because the man didn't want his wife surrounded by other men using the toilets and because of the urinals but it was okay for other women to put up with him. The urinals in the gents is a moot point because cubicles would also be available. Why should other women be made to feel uncomfortable because this man didn't want his wife to go in the gents? Why shouldn't men using the toilets have to wait for the couple to finish or just carry on in the woman's presence?

I don't think the op is unreasonable, a man should not be in a toilet designated for use by women only. I would not have been happy to find this man in the ladies. It would not have been my problem that the woman was incapable of changing a nappy single handed, if that's too much for her to cope with she can't be competent to care for the baby in many other ways.

The point about girls using the ladies toilet is fair as well, they should not be taught that it is normal to find men in the ladies, or that it should go unchallenged because one day it won't be a belligerent man changing a nappy, or a dad with his daughter, it may be a man with sinister intentions.

I don't know a single man in my family who would wander into the ladies, and the younger generation have regularly taken nappy wearing children out on their own.

Unexpectedbaby · 27/07/2017 08:12

I don't think YWBU to have initially asked them why he was in there. I think their response made things worse had heightened the situation. If they had a genuine reason for needing 2 of them and they had explained this I think it would have been better. If that was the case I probably would have let it go. Cubicles have doors so he wouldn't have seen you. But with their reaction I would have been pissed.

Changing DDs nappy rift now is so much easier with 2. She will not lay still long enough to make it straightforward and you have to distract her. Our town has changing areas with multiple tables, buggy park and play area for siblings. These are obviously unisex and so many other shopping areas should invest in them. They make life easier and situations like this avoidable.

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/07/2017 08:41

My husband has had to take our daughter into women's toilets before when the men's have had urinals and the only cubical in the men's was vile and he was on his own with her. This clearly wasn't a treating situation, he was changing a babies nappy

Why does no one think to actually giant ask a staff member to clean the toilets. Where does the idea it's ok to just shrug and thinking yourself "the women won't mind" Or " it's ok as I have to change a nappy/not gag/ don't wanna see a penis"

No one complains about lack of facilities
No one asks for them to be cleaned
No one asks if there is anywhere else

Nope far to much hassle and im far too important to waste my time like that I'll just use the ladies and they have to suck it up.

Spikeyball · 27/07/2017 08:45

Rufus, I have not said that anyone has said that people shouldn't go out. That is your interpretation of what I said.
If a woman went somewhere and there were no womens toilets there you would not be happy with the response that maybe she should rethink where she goes ( or similar) or from another poster " not my problem" followed by comments about competency.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/07/2017 08:52

Thanks spikey

Not trying to be clever i just felt that posts like that should be reported especially if it was directly referring to people with a disability

AlmostAJillSandwich · 27/07/2017 08:56

Sorry but i think you were ridiculous. It's an old man helping his wife change a baby. You have no idea what issues either has, and neither may have been capable of changing the baby alone. He was hardly a peeping tom waiting for you to go in a cubicle to sneak a phone under the door or spy through a gap looking or taking pics. When i was about 17 i was in Cardiff at a football match and was in the loo of a nightclub that was open as a pub before the match. Only one of the available cubicles in the Ladies wasn't blocked up, and as i was washing my hands a man appeared out of a cubicle behind me who must have been in there when i went in, who was really polite and apologised for being in there but all the gents loos were blocked. Honestly didn't think anything of it, a cubicle is private, being heard/hearing someone wee isn't any different if its a man or a woman.

Coastalcommand · 27/07/2017 08:57

You were being completely unreasonable. It wasn't like he wanted to come into the cubicle with you. He was changing a baby's nappy. Why couldn't you either wait a few minutes (without making a fuss) or go in the cubicle with them there?
Half the bars in our city centre now have unisex loos. How would you cope?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/07/2017 08:58

who was really polite and apologised for being in there

Those being the key words in my opinion

Spikeyball · 27/07/2017 08:58

I think it's possible defend women's spaces without making othering type comments. It isn't needed and doesn't help.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/07/2017 08:58

Absolutely spikey

User843022 · 27/07/2017 09:00

'it's an old man helping his wife change a baby'
Yes but apparently it's ageist to point that out.

'Put it this way if a two year old poked his head under the door i would say 'go find mummy sweetheart' 'if a grown man did it i would say 'FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING PERVERT!!! GET YOUR FUCKING HEAD OUT OF MY CUBICLE BEFORE I STAMP ON YOUR FUCKING FACE'

Well as neither happened I'm not sure of the relevance really?

Gileswithachainsaw · 27/07/2017 09:03

He was hardly a peeping tom

No one actualky knows this do they. I mean peeping toms don't walk around "I'm a peeping tom" on their t shirts. They look like regular people. He could have been anything.

Chances are he wasn't however if you are going to call the op ridiculous at least do so aware if the fact that he might not have just been some innocent old man.