Gender Self Identification debate continued

[PoochSmooch]

Continuation of the thread from here

I'm also hugely aware of it with my DDs, to try to never physically force them to do anything just because I can as I'm bigger.

I agree. Very important. On a par with never letting a boy nick his sister's stuff 'because he can'. Respect for boundaries starts with children.

Very well said notoneofyou

Incidentally I was raised by my father, and I was fairly "tomboyish" (a word I dislike now), in terms of liking maths and science and running around in the woods, and disliking Barbie and pink. And I was obviously going to grow up to be a lesbian. I do wonder if I'd be born 20 years later, would someone have tried to label me as trans? Quite likely they would. But I am not trans, and I enjoy being a woman. Gender stereotyping is so very dangerous. The trans-movement intersects with misogyny and homophobia in all kinds of ways, but the attempted erasure of anyone who does not conform to strict gender norms is one of the more disturbing ways.

I was also very tomboy growing up. I hated puberty. Very embarrassed about growing breasts etc. I got over it and love being a woman and mother.

I have been date raped, abducted and almost raped and sexually assaulted in my youth. None of which I felt I could report for reasons that I felt I'd foolishly put myself in vulnerable positions. Also a victim of dv in my early 20s.

I'm a really normal middle class middle aged woman. Violence from men happens to most women at some point I would think.

Thanks for the supportive replies I had re being attacked on social media. To be honest it has really affected me. It was my best friend's profile and the two women who rounded on me are very good friends of hers. I think I'm actually not going to post on her timeline in future.
Is there anything practical happening that I can send my energy to on the Self Identification Debate?

GrimDamnFanjo I am just reading stuff to keep informed and waiting. There is a reference thread for any new sources you find. I think there are a lot of informed people on here who have been researching this for some time.
Hopefully some-one will come along and direct you better. Sorry about your experience on social media , the more I read about this the more paranoid I become, I have not posted stuff on my own social media and do feel a bit like a coward .

In today's Times

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/children-want-to-be-free-of-gender-obsessions-0h8mqlwz5?shareToken=61c1e4a94ffbd106fc6532935dc01232

That's a reality check all right.

Sorry guys been a busy few days and didn't have a chance to check the forum.

I'm enjoying this conversation I really am.

So what is it, me as a man, could do that would help in this situation? And I genuinely mean that because the scale of the response has somewhat opened my eyes to what you go through, whilst I don't agree with everything that's been said it would be arrogant to think I am right when I don't truly know what it is like.

But whilst just being aware of something it great and all, what can I actually DO that would be helpful?

Today's Times. Think they might be trying to look balanced.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/thunderer-help-transgender-children-by-ending-old-lies-and-fears-3w6wr9svr?shareToken=6abc26d2b8e5a298810e17e52534ab1a

That is garbage. Solipsistic and full of fallacies like this:

From the age of four until I was 18, everyone I knew told me I couldn’t be a girl. And yet here I am ten years on, living as a woman.

It muddies the water by co-opting the fight for gay rights and has misleading statistics.

However, it is impressive how many wrongs it managed to pack into relatively few words.

I am a bit rubbish at writing what I want to say clearly. If the article allows comments on the Times site, I am a subscriber so happy to post something if someone / a few people want to write it.

@Rockhopper92 thank you for coming back and being open to educating yourself. That's positive. In a rush now, I'll think about your question - what can men do to help...

One thing that springs to mind immediately is to be aware that women who don't know you will be assessing whether you are a threat in situations like late night walking down the road. You can signal that you are not a threat if you are waking behind a woman at night by crossing the road - even if that's not strictly your route.

In a train carriage late at night is harder. I'd sometime rather there be a man who doesn't look too threatening than totally on my own with whoever gets on at the next stop. I'm not sure what the answer is to that.

That's just thoughts that came to mind. What can be done more generally - I'll have a think...

rock, you could help protect the few places we have which exist to protect women based on their sex, not their gender. Places like women's refuges, or prisons; things like statistics. Write to your MP as a man and ask for upcoming laws to be better thought-through for women, even while protecting people who want to transition too.

And yy to generally being more aware as oldtrees says.

Rockhopper92

Another one here who has read your latest post with a mixture of relief and gratitude.

I'm not surprised that you don't agree with everything. It's really not easy to walk in another's shoes. Trite, I know. But true, nonetheless.

Having an awareness will be invaluable. Just thinking about how women navigate amongst men will give you a filter that many men refuse to have or, worse, deny it exists.

If you want to help, write to your MP about the upcoming legislation. Other threads have sample letters.

Be aware of low-level sexism. Once you become aware, you notice it more, the more you notice it, the worse it becomes. Suddenly, your radar-by-association will start to blip. You will automatically take steps to reassure women you're not a threat. The train carriage one, above, for instance. Tricky. One of the things you can do is get on your phone, to a fake person, saying things like, hello love I'm on the 11.28 I'll be home at 12.15. It normalises you.

Open a book, your phone, ignore the woman.

Unfortunately, men don't come with a label, but this sort of behaviour will reduce the perceived threat from a possible red, to a low level alertness.

And call other men out on sexist remarks. A casual "not cool, mate", works wonders. No need to get involved in a debate, just a remark and then carry on as normal, ignoring any subsequent piss taking.

Sorry, I meant to add, that make no mistake, you will get pushback from other men. Men do not like being called out on sexism, nor do they like to be called out on dominant behaviour, when they don't realise they are being dominant, and then act dominantly to stop you!