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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
7Days · 24/07/2017 20:47

Mmm. If most people give it mych thought at all, they probably think the whole thing is some teen fad crossed with Hayley from Coronation Street and some camp drag performers from the 80s. A load of fuss about a few attention seekers. Annoying maybe but harmless.
A lot of this stuff plays out online. That isnt relevant to many people

Lurkedforever1 · 24/07/2017 20:49

thatwould don't worry about the cost. We could just ditch anything aimed at the female sex to cover it. Perhaps raise tampax tax as it is a cis privilege to need them. Or just ban biological women from using the nhs incase the existence of their different medical needs offends someone with a penis.

busyboysmum · 24/07/2017 20:55

I've been out there today on social media debating this. The vitriol and personal attacks I've received from presumably trans men has astonished me. What an unpleasant lot they are. There's been no debate from them. Just abuse and violent language. So we have them wanting access to our private spaces for trans reasons and also potentially predatory abusive men for sexual reasons. Very very worrying indeed.

Datun · 24/07/2017 20:59

Oh for heaven' sake, BabychamSocialist

Don't you get itchy from all that straw you use in your arguments?

To be fair, it's never going to be an inclusive debate when you have some posters comparing a group of people to the behaviour of paedophiles.

How can anyone compare a paedophile to someone who isn't a paedophile?

No one has suggested that all transwomen are paedophiles. The transwoman cohort contains just as many paedophiles as there are in the general population.

But every single paedophile in the country, will be given sanctioned access to children, by dint of being able to identify as a woman. With no change to their appearance, behaviour or lifestyle whatsoever.

Paedophiles spend years, sometimes decades, carving out access, and grooming children. Self identification as a woman with legitimate access to children's changing rooms, locker rooms and bathrooms is a dream come true.

hackmum · 24/07/2017 21:02

Apparently the government plans to publish a Gender Recognition Bill in the autumn.

Wasn't there a Gender Recognition Bill already going through parliament when the general election was called? I thought it had received a second reading - did it automatically get scrapped because of the general election?

Datun · 24/07/2017 21:03

JustAnotherPoster00

Yeah sorry, I don't have your confidence. Women are already being silenced, attacked and shutdown. If no one opposes this, it will go through.

No one opposed in Ireland. They didn't know it was happening, it's already gone through in Ireland.

Everyone said it would never be considered in England. Then when it was, they said it would never go through. Now it's getting the support of political leaders everywhere.

So I'm not willing to wait until it's too late, unlike the people of Ireland, Canada, many states in the US, etc.

HelenaDove · 24/07/2017 21:03

Surely you mean trans women busyboysmum not trans men.

hackmum · 24/07/2017 21:07

Datun: "But every single paedophile in the country, will be given sanctioned access to children, by dint of being able to identify as a woman."

And of course rapists and violent abusers will also be able to have access to potential female victims by being allowed into women-only spaces.

This isn't really an issue about trans rights, but about allowing men to say they identify as women, regardless of whether they actually identify as women.

Datun · 24/07/2017 21:11

It is illegal to use the wrong pronouns in Canada. A Western country. A country that promotes Britain as being at the forefront of transgender rights, funnily enough.

*Canada passed a law Thursday making it illegal to use the wrong gender pronouns. Critics say that Canadians who do not subscribe to progressive gender theory could be accused of hate crimes, jailed, fined, and made to take anti-bias training.

www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2017/06/16/canada-passes-law-criminalizing-use-of-wrong-gender-pronouns/

Authorities there now fine citizens up to $250,000 for the novel crime of "mis-gendering" - referring to people by any words other than their pronouns of choice (including newly constructed words such as zie/hir, ey/em/eir and co).

www.google.co.uk/amp/thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/301661-this-canadian-prof-defied-sjw-on-gender-pronouns-and-has-a%3Famp

So no, I'm not willing to be complacent. Ffs.

SmileEachDay · 24/07/2017 21:12

hackmum

Maybe women and transwomen should be working together - it's in neither groups interests to have any man allowed into female only spaces - transwomen are regularly subject to violence at the hands of men, after all.

NewbieSpartacus · 24/07/2017 21:12

Sorry, don't have time to read it all. Are there any ideas for what we can actually do?

Elendon · 24/07/2017 21:14

I'm astonished any bill is going through Parliament at the moment, because you know what we are leaving the European Union.

And yes, everything should be put on hold until the negotiations are finished and a good deal has been reached.

What is this Government playing at? Certainly not a game of Poker. They couldn't keep their cards close if their political careers depended on it. More like a game of Mornington Crescent. This is a government of procrastinators.

To this government I say; get on with the job of taking us out of the EU successfully and stop farting around.

Datun · 24/07/2017 21:15

Hack

Wasn't there a Gender Recognition Bill already going through parliament when the general election was called? I thought it had received a second reading - did it automatically get scrapped because of the general election?

Correct. Everyone thought it might of been shelved for good. Clearly not.

Datun · 24/07/2017 21:15

*have

hackmum · 24/07/2017 21:20

I really question the government's wisdom in pressing ahead with this when they have Brexit to deal with. What a waste of everybody's time.

LadyinCement · 24/07/2017 21:20

I think Canada is off the menu for me, then. I can't get used to all these new pronouns - zie and hir?! Wtf? I'm honestly beginning to understand how old people accidentally use racist terms. It'll be all of us one day being castigated for assuming that because it's got a five o'clock shadow and a big Adam's apple, it's a man.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 24/07/2017 21:22

I think she might mean men who are trans. The terminology can be very confusing. This is a good thread. Deserves wider attention, I hope it gets it.

BunnyBunnyMooseMoose · 24/07/2017 21:25

@AssignedMentalAtBirth can i pm you?

SmileEachDay · 24/07/2017 21:28

Deserves wider attention, I hope it gets it.

Unfortunately it's not really Daily Mail fodder. We could try and sex it up?

No? Anybody?

Atenco · 24/07/2017 21:40

I'm a great one for conspiracy theories and I can't help but wonder at how all this has been coordinated and brought into being. I live in Mexico City and in 2012 suddenly there were posters everywhere asking as not to discriminate against transgenders. Very peculiar considering they are such a tiny minority, while the real problem is discrimination against indigenous people. Now five years later and again out of nowhere we find that all these laws have been put in place to favour them.

Could it just simply be that governments got so much kudos out of allowing gay marriage without it costing them anything that they looke around for something else that would keep us from complaining about all the other injustices in our society?

Or could it be the pharmaceutical companies that are behind this?

I doubt we will find out the answer, but it very curious.

Atenco · 24/07/2017 21:42

Pressed to soon

And sometimes it feels like a huge social experiment to see how much they can convinced us all that black is white.

busyboysmum · 24/07/2017 21:46

Sorry yes I mean men who identify as women. I'm old too. It's bloody confusing. There seems to be so much jargon around. WTF is a cis woman? And they kept shouting TERF!!!!!! at me as though there was nothing else that needed to be said. They seem fanatics to me. And that's very dangerous.

busyboysmum · 24/07/2017 21:50

This was a typical comment: HEY STUPID.....SEX AND GENDER ARE NOT THE SAME THING.......AFTER SOME EDUCATION YOU WONT LOOK SO MUCH LIKE A FUCKING MORON

How is that a reasoned debate? How can you discuss with someone like that?

Elendon · 24/07/2017 21:51

re pronouns I'm just staying with people, children, them and their.

unless they are exactly specific about a preferred pronoun.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 24/07/2017 21:53

Yes, they're fanatics. I think there has to be a strong element of narcissism there - their problems are far more important to them than anybody else's. They're also not very bright in many cases, and appear to have no grasp of science at all. I can't claim to be all that well-informed about science (Biology O level was as far as I got, a long time ago) but I'll take a lot of convincing that there really is a ladybrain. They constantly start talking about intersex or various extremely rare chromosomal abnormalities as if this in some way proves that the 57 varieties approach to gender has a biological basis. It's utter nonsense.

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