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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
illegitimateMortificadospawn · 24/07/2017 15:06

Anlaf - They have already stated that transwomen are included in their remit, so it is unlikely.

SmileEachDay · 24/07/2017 15:06

I've missed a few pages - why has the 38 degrees petition been deleted?

VestalVirgin · 24/07/2017 15:08

38 degrees are misogynists, and don't want to discriminate against a "gender" ... but discriminating against the female sex is just fine.
(That's what I got from their answer someone quoted)

Datun · 24/07/2017 15:09

Anlaf

The Women's Equality Party have a fully drunk the Kool-Aid. They were on a web chat and asked to define the word woman, that makes up the title of their party.

They refused.

There was a flurry of exchanges on their website after the women's March where women were saying this pussy grabs back in reference to Trump was considered a transphobic because 'not all women have a pussy'.

They are fully supportive of the ideology.

Anlaf · 24/07/2017 15:09

38 degrees petition pulled for playing on fear

I’m afraid your petition is inappropriate for this website. The 38 Degrees team have reviewed the petition and whilst we absolutely understand the need to create safe spaces for all genders, we believe that this petition plays a lot on fear and discriminates against trans women and therefore breaks our terms and conditions. Obviously we all hope that the government give full consideration to any new laws brought in, but we believe this petition attempts to play off the rights of one vulnerable minority group against the rights of another group. As such we are not happy to host this petition 38 Degrees is independent of all political parties, and upholds values of freedom, democracy, peace, human rights, community, equality, fairness and sustainability. We reserve the right to remove any campaigns or comments that do not share these principles. We reserve the right to remove any petition which we judge to promote illegal acts, hatred, violence, discrimination or stereotypes based on race, gender, ethnicity, sexuality, disability, nationality or religion. You can read our full terms and conditions here:

LadyinCement · 24/07/2017 15:09

I see Samoyed's point that obviously committing a sex offence will still be illegal... BUT at the moment a man (or men) can't enter a woman only space. If legislation goes through, then they can . And as others have said, what constitutes a sex offence? It's not just violent rape. It is offensive behaviour too, such as staring or exhibitionism, which would be difficult to report let alone prove.

hackmum · 24/07/2017 15:09

Back to the point samoyed made about whether other feminists are speaking out about this or whether it's just a Mumsnet thing: I just remembered the abuse that journalist Helen Lewis received when she objected to a t-shirt with the slogan: "I punch Terfs".

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2964877-Punching-Terfs

Because violence against women is OK, you know, if it's a transgender person committing the violence.

It really is beyond shit.

SmileEachDay · 24/07/2017 15:12

Oh for FUCKS sake.

Why are women not worth protecting?

Anlaf · 24/07/2017 15:13

I just have a pointless i know hope that WEP might step up now this is more likely to become legislation.

Sarah Ditum has some good thoughts on problems to be worked through in the consultation period - may be useful for our letter writing sarahditum.com/2017/07/24/some-thoughts-on-reforms-to-the-gender-recognition-act/

Datun · 24/07/2017 15:13

There was a petition set up to have Jenni Murray fired after she said that a transwoman's lived experience would be different to that of a biological woman.

Bloody Jenni Murray! I notice she hasn't stuck her head above the parapet since. (And that petition wasn't pulled).

olliegarchy99 · 24/07/2017 15:15

this excerpt from a FB comment I happened across makes a lot of sense:
If you say that gender-based rights are the same as sex-based rights, you roll back sex-based rights. This is not a transphobic stance - it's a simple truth.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 24/07/2017 15:16

You've heard the saying that the right want women to be private property, the left want women to be public property and it's only feminists who don't want women to be property at all.
I think 38 Degrees have demonstrated they're fully paid up to the leftie 'women should be public property' angle.

Women's privacy is not a thing worth protecting according them - indeed, even further than that, trying to protect it constitutes hate.
(Utter bastards. I am so angry.)

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 24/07/2017 15:17

Sadly no, Anlaf. WEP are fully signed up gender bollocks advocates.

OP posts:
Datun · 24/07/2017 15:17

Julie Bindle was targeted when she was asked to talk at the working-class women's library about coming out as a lesbian in the 1970s.

She was subjected to abuse and threats of violence, as was the library. Transactivists attempted to contact the people who fund the library to demand they withdraw funding.

The library is an incredibly important resource for working-class feminism, and of course it's entirely staffed by volunteers. There are no big funders.

MiddleEnglandLives · 24/07/2017 15:22

I'd really like to know why women's fear of men is considered irrational and is so easily dismissed, even given the rape and domestic violence statistics, but men's emotional feelings must be respected at all times.
I am so sickened by this.

GladAllOver · 24/07/2017 15:24

The library is an incredibly important resource for working-class feminism, and of course it's entirely staffed by volunteers. There are no big funders.
Labour-controlled Lambeth Council are busy closing down libraries and selling them off for private gyms. So much for working-class resources.

GladAllOver · 24/07/2017 15:26

but men's emotional feelings must be respected at all times.
I am so sickened by this.

Actually, the men I have discussed this with have been as appalled as any woman.

StatelessPrincess · 24/07/2017 15:28

I found this petition, dont know if it's already been posted-www.citizengo.org/en-gb/pc/41304-say-not-dangerous-gender-identity-bill
It's very focused on changing rooms in the wording, it could be better but it's got 11180 signatures so far.

StatelessPrincess · 24/07/2017 15:29

Don't know why my links never work
www.citizengo.org/en-gb/pc/41304-say-not-dangerous-gender-identity-bill

venusinscorpio · 24/07/2017 15:32

Obviously we all hope that the government give full consideration to any new laws brought in,

Yes sure, of course you do. But you won't allow us to raise our concerns, so how are we supposed to flag them to the government? Arseholes.

BeyondDrinksAndKnowsThings · 24/07/2017 15:32

@SamoyedSam no attack or long post, I'd just like to point out that there are plenty of people filling in the gov survey from here, who legitimately belong to one of the groups.
It's not LGBTQIABCD or terfy transphobe.

venusinscorpio · 24/07/2017 15:33

I think we might have to go door to door and collect signatures on an old school written petition!

venusinscorpio · 24/07/2017 15:37

I'm just glad the flow IRL is along my thinking.

It really isn't. People don't understand it until it's explained what it means, then they think it's crazy. MN is perfectly representative of average persons views.

Enjoy the virtue signalling though! It must be nice for you to indulge it.

northernruth · 24/07/2017 15:37

If you really have to use google to find feminist comment on this topic, then you are not an engaged feminist in any sense of the word, there hasn't been much else over the last two years that's been as widely discussed as the infringement of women's rights by TAs.

That of course doesn't negate your right to an opinion, but it does make you naive.

grafittiartist · 24/07/2017 15:40

I've been following all of this over the last day - since coming straight over when it was announced on the news. Feel appalled by it all. I signed the 38 degrees petition, which I now know has been pulled. I'm now off to leave them and tell them why. What can I do- please someone give me a job to do. Will write to my female mp too.

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