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Punching Terfs

(145 Posts)
AssignedMentalAtBirth Tue 27-Jun-17 10:38:57

twitter.com/helenlewis/status/879622400631025664

Helen Lewis is getting dog's abuse, mostly from men, because she objects to someone having "I punch TERFs" on their tshirt. I like her, listen to the NS podcast and always impressed with her. I think she's brave to tweet about this but it's a bloody minefield. I really am struggling with the left wing on this issue. That and all the no platforming, compelled speech etc. I thought I was left wing but I think I am more liberal, in the classic sense. e.g. Free speech and all that, which doesn't include threats of violence if you don't agree with what someone says. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Datun Tue 27-Jun-17 11:00:19

I get confused when politics enters the fray. TERF seems to be a euphemism for any woman that I can threaten. It's pure misogyny.

Does that mean the left are secret misogynists? Or does that mean that it's mostly men who are given a voice and their politics are irrelevant?

bigkidsdidit Tue 27-Jun-17 11:09:26

Where does the left wing come into it? Helen Lewis is a lefty isn't she - how do you know the people in her thread are too?

patodp Tue 27-Jun-17 11:10:55

Who are the "left wing" in this discourse exactly?

Left wing generally means a belief in taxation, equal opportunities in the form of free education and free healthcare, and more equal distribution of wealth.

Gay rights, the right to employment when you are gate and the right to not be discriminated against, like refused entry or refused service for being gayour, falls under left wing ideology because it was progressive.

"I punch Terfs" is not exactly a left wing mantra.
It's a violent male-centric comment.

Trans ideology is relatively new, and I think we are all still learning how it's own politics which are so muddled up with LGB rights actually fit in.

Personally I actually think trans politics is more right wing and regressive than they are left wing, because trans politics holds onto deeply conservative views of what being male or female is, and is inherently homophobic, a modern conversion therapy.

I believe ppl who choose to dress up and present themselves in a way they like should be free to do so, and this is pretty much what "left wing" is about, but upholding and entrenching gender roles and redefining words to mean things they don't mean is not typical of left wing politics or liberal politics at all. Punching feminists and rape / death threats are not traditionally left wing or liberal acts. They are the acts of abhorrent individuals.

patodp Tue 27-Jun-17 11:12:11

*gate *gayour? I just meant Gay. I have a homophobic autospell!

ALittleBitOfButter Tue 27-Jun-17 11:12:21

hmm
I don't think being left is synonymous with being part of the trans cult.

I'm as left as anything and I'm a TERF, as was Marx.

Collidascope Tue 27-Jun-17 11:13:27

I really like Helen Lewis and reading those comments is maddening. More of the 'questioning someone's identity is violence!' rubbish. Reminded me of a sky news interview on YouTube where a trans woman tells Julie Bindel that trans people are now frightened of Jenny Murray, and Julie Bindel just starts laughing and points out that if you're interviewed by someone who disagrees with you, you present them with facts and logic.
Which is exactly why TAs claim to be scared, I suppose -because they have no logical basis for what they're arguing.

DJBaggySmalls Tue 27-Jun-17 11:17:34

Left wing men need to deal with their misogyny or gtfo.

This image is also doing the rounds this morning. If you are on Twitter perhaps you could take a moment to report it as 'threatening violence to a group.'

Also, Facebook is deleting and banning all references to Dykes. Things are actually getting pretty scary for women right now.

patodp Tue 27-Jun-17 11:19:28

But how do you know this man is left wing?

patodp Tue 27-Jun-17 11:21:56

He might own a £1million house and vote conservative to preserve his shares in a utility company offshore account. And want to punch Terfs.

Collidascope Tue 27-Jun-17 11:22:18

Patodp, I bet he self-idenities as left wing... You don't want to be violent, do you?

Datun Tue 27-Jun-17 11:25:54

Personally I actually think trans politics is more right wing and regressive than they are left wing, because trans politics holds onto deeply conservative views of what being male or female is, and is inherently homophobic, a modern conversion therapy.

This is true. I think it depends how you analyse the trans-ideology. Reinforcing gender stereotypes is right-wing. Supporting LGB issues is left-wing.

At the moment, people are generally assuming it's an LGB issue. Until they drill down.

From what I have read, anyone who supports it is a misogynist. And they just tailor their politics to fit.

It's a win/win for men and a lose/lose for women, whatever their politics.

Collidascope Tue 27-Jun-17 11:26:46

Being serious though, do these people not realise that wearing clothes which declare that they attack women is much more of a male thing to do than a female?

Datun Tue 27-Jun-17 11:28:09

Collidascope

Firstly they don't care. And secondly, their argument is that because I'm a woman, what I do is 'womanly'.

JassyRadlett Tue 27-Jun-17 11:33:19

From the Helen Lewis thread I went down a rabbit hole to discover someone claiming abortion was cis privilege.

Christ.

patodp Tue 27-Jun-17 11:35:38

Collidascope
oh no I've committed actual violence towards a self-identifying Lefty who's actually a Tory by my mere musing! grin

Datun I think it's better to remove LGB+T issues from Left VS Right politics. It's un-ignorable that anyone supporting transactivism is a misogynist, you get them on the right of politics and the left.
Anti-feminism (AKA punching Terfs) is more common on the far right!
So transactivists indeed have more in common with the right than left.

AssignedMentalAtBirth Tue 27-Jun-17 11:37:35

I think Helen Lewis was referring to the SJWs who are aggressively left wing and pro trans ideologues. You see them a lot on twitter. Also those who are no platforming at universities etc. I agree that many people supporting the transcult nonsense just think they are being kind and don't really understand the ideology

patodp Tue 27-Jun-17 11:40:26

LGBT is a spectrum
The L is to the left
and the T is to the right.

AssignedMentalAtBirth Tue 27-Jun-17 11:43:21

Also, there seems to be a pre-determined left wing ideology for some people, and the trans stuff is part of it, but identity politics in general. If you don't agree, you are told you are a bigot etc, Was also just reading posts from a guy calling women 'terfs' bigots, and telling them it was 'bad feminism'. Christ!

RiverTam Tue 27-Jun-17 11:44:01

I just saw this. Talk about an excellent example of what a violent man looks like.

I think that a lot of people who'd call themselves lefties automatically support trans rights without bothering to find out the detail. I agree that a lot of trans ideology is profoundly right wing but unfortunately, especially in the US, the right wing are our allies against it (for their own reasons).

patodp Tue 27-Jun-17 11:45:18

SJWs are just not left wing though, they're mostly immature student activists. MRAs are a type of SJW. Britain First and Farage supporters fall into SJW groups. F4J. None of these groups are left wing. Transactivists are not left wing. They are activists for their cause. Their cause happens to be tacked onto LGB.

patodp Tue 27-Jun-17 11:48:42

Rivertam yes the problem is that ppl naturally inclined to "the left" blindly support trans rights without fully understanding the consequences and when only feminists point this out, feminists are slurred with "Punch the TERF" and they pullback down, go back to thinking about animal rights or being a vegetarian or whatever and just nod in acceptance to what's going on.

NoLoveofMine Tue 27-Jun-17 11:49:45

I agree that many people supporting the transcult nonsense just think they are being kind and don't really understand the ideology

This is the case with some I think but the problem is they just won't listen to or accept any debate on it (or at least that's the case with the ones I know). I gave up discussing it with the majority of girls I know who support it all as I knew where it'd lead - although have started to a little with one of them and thankfully my closest friends agree with me/most on here.

On the subject of this threatening violence I think they revel in it. I've read of so many violently misogynistic statements and slurs they've used, knowing many are ready to do their bidding and shout down any "TERF" who challenges them.

AssignedMentalAtBirth Tue 27-Jun-17 11:50:08

I don't think Britain First etc are most people's understanding of SJWs patodp, certainly from what I have been reading/listening to. Agree about the students but there are plenty old SJWs about. And many students do go on to have positions of influence

SpaghettiAndMeatballs Tue 27-Jun-17 11:50:09

But how do you know this man is left wing?

Patodp, I bet he self-idenities as left wing... You don't want to be violent, do you?

Pretty sure he doesn't self-identify as a man though.. sorry both of you, you are now TERFs and apparently get to be punched, and plenty of twitter says it's fine to say that.

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