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Gender Self Identity Law coming! MNQH and Mumsnetters: Time to pick a side

999 replies

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 23/07/2017 10:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782

This is going to happen unless we speak out now.

Other thread in feminist chat

Fence sitters everywhere, please read, be aware of what is coming

From the Times:
Tories promote the right to choose your own sex
Transgender reforms for birth certificates
Adults will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor’s diagnosis under government plans that will transform British society.
Men will be able to identify themselves as women — and women as men — and have their birth certificates altered to record their new gender.
Ministers plan to tear up the existing rules that mean people have to live for two years as their desired gender before they can officially change sex.
A consultation on the Gender Recognition Bill, to be published in the autumn, will also include proposals to scrap the requirement that people get a formal medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” before applying to switch gender.
Critics warned that allowing people in effect to “self-identify” as a member of the opposite sex, while maintaining the anatomy of their birth gender, would unleash a firestorm of legal cases over access to women-only hospital wards, prisons, lavatories, changing rooms and competitive sports.
Justine Greening, the minister for women and equalities, called the move to give more rights to transgender people the third great “step forward” after equality for women and the legalisation of same-sex marriage in 2013.
The announcement is timed to coincide with the 50th anniversary of the partial decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967. Greening said ministers want to “streamline and demedicalise” gender change to make it easier for people to switch their identity legally.
In future people are expected to be required only to make a statutory declaration that they intend to live in the acquired gender until death — in line with arrangements already adopted in Ireland.
The consultation will address whether those whose gender is “non-binary” should also be able to define themselves as “X” on their birth certificates.
A separate consultation in Scotland will go further than England and Wales by recommending that “non-binary” people should be able to define themselves as “X” on passports. It will also propose a cut in the age at which people can change their gender from 18 to 16.
The plans will be controversial. Prominent feminists including Germaine Greer and Dame Jenni Murray, the presenter of Radio 4’s Woman’s Hour, have questioned whether men can become women even if they undergo a sex-change operation.
Stephanie Davies-Arai of Transgender Trend, a parents’ group, said: “This has huge implications for women. There will be legal cases. The most worrying thing is if any man can identify as a woman with no tests and gain access to spaces where women might be getting undressed or feel vulnerable — like women’s hospital wards, refuges and rape crisis centres — women will just stop going to these facilities.”
Self-identifying was recommended by a parliamentary committee last year chaired by the former cabinet minister Maria Miller and it has the backing of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn.
Greening also announced the government will make it easier for gay men to give blood. At the moment men who have had sexual contact with other men are barred from donating for 12 months. That will be reduced to three months.

Ministers will launch a national survey of Britain’s estimated 1.5m LGBT people to help inform policy.
The education department has also announced £3m will be spent on “anti-homophobic and transphobic programmes”. Schools, including faith schools, will be required to include LGBT issues in relationships and sex education.
Greening, who is in a relationship with a woman, said: “This government is committed to building an inclusive society that works for everyone, no matter what their gender or sexuality.
“We will build on the significant progress we have made over the past 50 years, tackling some of the historic prejudices that still persist in our laws and giving LGBT people a real say on the issues affecting them.”
Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall, the lobbying organisation, welcomed the plans. “We need a simple process which isn’t medicalised, intrusive or demeaning,” she said.
The move will put the government on a collision course with some religious groups. Simon Calvert of the Christian Institute said: “It is worrying when the leaders of the main political parties are so out of touch with the concerns of ordinary people.
“Allowing men to self-identify as female without any medical diagnosis allows them to invade the privacy of women and girls.
“It’s time for a reality check. Some things can’t be changed. May and Corbyn want to elevate the principle of ‘gender self-declaration’. But it is wrong, it is anti-scientific and it is dangerous.”
A source who is close to Greening acknowledged that the proposed changes could be problematic. “That’s why we are going to have a consultation, so we can examine all the implications,” the source said.
A Scottish government spokeswoman said it hopes to have “new arrangements in place by 2020”.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Slimthistime · 24/07/2017 00:23

Ruth, I believe gender is a social construct I.e. Crap
So I say I'm non binary, non conforming
It doesn't actually mean anything other than "not restricted by sterotype"
But as a category it allowed me to fill in the survey....!

Slimthistime · 24/07/2017 00:24

If this gets anywhere I am so identifying as a man, just to see what happens.

Datun · 24/07/2017 00:50

IAmEatingACurry

I have a question. Please don't reply if it's personal, but it's bothering me.

Presumably people who want hormones, facial surgery, breast implants, or full genital surgery can get it on the NHS.

As far as I was aware you needed a diagnosis of gender dysphoria in order to obtain it.

If gender dysphoria is no longer considered the basis of a diagnosis for trans, would one still be able to get treatment of hormones and surgery without a diagnosis?

Do you think this push for self identification is from people who have no intention of having any kind of surgery? Or can you self identify, still claim gender dysphoria and then still get treatment.

73kittycat73 · 24/07/2017 03:38

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread - but - I find this horrific! Has anybody come up with a protest solution yet? I would like to add my voice to those who also appose it. (I'm also a lesbian, does that help?! Grin )

sticklebrix · 24/07/2017 06:50

73kittycat73
Check this out:
www.gov.uk/government/consultations/national-lgbt-survey

Collidascope · 24/07/2017 07:02

73kittycat, you may have to do some self-identifying as an 'oppressed minority' to fill in that survey, but hey, that's apparently all fine and good and progressive, isn't it?

VestalVirgin · 24/07/2017 07:16

Does that mean that we can't be accused of being transphobic towards them, because they're now 'women'? Therefore if a real lesbian won't sleep with a, previously known as, trans woman, then said lesbian can't be accused of being a bigot towards them, because the penis owning, previously known as trans woman, is now a 'real' woman?

No, if lesbians don't want to have sex with them, they'll still call themselves trans, as to profit from their male privilege and get support for the intention to rape lesbians.

Women will never profit from the transcult. It is a patriarchal movement designed to erode all that feminism has fought for.

SmileEachDay · 24/07/2017 07:18

[[https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/national-lgbt-survey ]]

kitty use your 500 words at the end wisely....many of us have pointed out that it's feckin' ridiculous that women aren't being asked their opinion about the new legislation.

DressedCrab · 24/07/2017 07:38

I am beyond incandescent about this.

sooperdooper · 24/07/2017 07:45

Sorry if this has already been posted but there's this petition too, very well worded imo

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/no-to-the-erasure-of-women-and-abolition-of-our-spaces

olliegarchy99 · 24/07/2017 07:46

smile
I so agree. If the LGBT community is 1.5million strong why have the rest (of the 65 million UK residents - although maybe only 45million adults) not been asked.?

The survey itself is discriminatory (although it is apparent that as it is anonymous anyone can complete it and probably be ignored if not of the right category)

sooperdooper · 24/07/2017 07:47

smileeachday thank you I'll complete if later - for the purposes of the survey I'll self identify as bi :)

northernruth · 24/07/2017 08:08

Slim - agreed, and I've been GNC a lot in my life, so I reckon I qualify too. i was referring to the current spate of precious youth who wish to distinguish themselves from the masses.

All those saying that we can have unisex, single room bathrooms and changing facilities - where is the legislation and the funding for that? Do you think these things will spring from the ground fully formed when a brave a beautiful bearded man appears in sex segregated spaces? No, they won't.

Can one of the handmaidens on this thread explain to me how a transwoman flashing a penis at my 10 yo daughter would be ok, yet if the SAME PERSON flashed them the day before they decided they were female it would be a criminal offence? There's no such thing as a lady penis.

And lesbians are being called transphobic for refusal to consider sleeping with trans women. They are re writing the rule book so that sexual preference is now bigotry.

I am an ex club kid, so I grew up with feminine men in toilets, and drag queens, full range. That is not threatening to me at all. They were all gay men. I don't want to see anyone get beaten up in a toilet. The new breed of trans are straight men who demand to be accepted as women.

Oh and by the way - that male urine you see in unisex toilets isn't just carelessness. Some men like to mark their territory. Women need safe spaces, and space to deal with sanitary issues, and safety in changing rooms, and in prison.

Also crime stats are being manipulated by the transition of violent men - so their crimes are recorded as women's crimes, which means that the arguments for sex segregation are weakened.

It's horrendous

LadyinCement · 24/07/2017 08:12

The stupidity of surveys is that they are self-selecting and then the results are extrapolated to give a far more wide-ranging impression. Eg it could be reported "9 out of 10 women concerned about their weight!" and then it transpires that this comes from a survey in Slimmers' World to which probably 73 people responded.

Where has all this sudden "trans" business come from? Seriously? My ds, just about to start university, has already been contacted about whether he is transgender and what support they can offer. There are transgender boxes everywhere, even when I was filling in a form for a tennis pass for the local courts! By authorities falling over themselves to support this minority they risk trampling over half the population - at least.

And let us not forget we are opportunistic creatures. Privileges for being transgender? You can bet some people will be identifying as trans if it means positive discrimination for jobs etc. (And then of course once job/course/funding is acquired you can self-identify back again.) And then of course there will be the criminal opportunists who will use the legislation to legitimately enter female toilets/changing rooms/prisons and so on.

fakenamefornow · 24/07/2017 08:25

So how does this work with pregnancy and childbirth? I register as a man, am legally a man on my passport and birth certificate. I then become pregnant, maybe by my female identifying (male) partner. How will the child's birth certificate read? I've heard that I will be listed as the mother regardless of how I am legally described.

I predict this law will go through, followed by a whole load of court cases challenging stuff like fully functional men being denied access to things like women's races because they don't wear makeup so therefore can't really be a woman.

fakenamefornow · 24/07/2017 08:30

I filled in the survey. I identified as 'non binary' because it's true. I never wear female clothes or make up, and do a man's job. In our new think world I absolutely qualify.

LadyinCement · 24/07/2017 08:37

I really think this country has better things to spend its money on than endless court cases and compensation that will result from any change in the law regarding this matter. There will be so much arguing in court over whether X was identifying as a female when they entered the women's changing room at the swimming pool when X is seeking £££££ compensation for having been thrown out by a member of staff.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 24/07/2017 08:38

I've filled in the whole survey except the 500 words so far, I want to think about that before writing it. In the part about abuse all I really had to talk about abuse from transwomen for being lesbian. So I put that.

As far as Stonewall are concerned, anyone who doesn't match gender stereotypes is trans so any woman who isn't a Stepford wife has the right to complete the survey, I'd say.

SimonsPies · 24/07/2017 08:41

Sorry if this has been mentioned, can't read the whole thread, but where has the content if this bill come from? Seems way out there for the Tories.

fakenamefornow · 24/07/2017 08:47

I wrote about wanting to be a boy as a child and that, thank God, this was thirty five years ago. Had it been now I would have wanted, and received, hormones, surgery etc. I would have been lied to and told that I was/could be male. Being a women has absolutely nothing to do with liking make up and dresses, it's nothing to do with feelings, it just is.

StatelessPrincess · 24/07/2017 08:56

fakename I was like that too, didn't like ''girly'' things, refused to wear dresses, wanted to be a farmer, used to try and pee standing up, tried to shave my face once too. But luckily for me it was the 80's. I dread to think what sort of box that little girl would be pigeonholed into now.

formerbabe · 24/07/2017 09:02

This is becoming a horrific time of incredible polarisation. You are either a right wing bigot or an accepting of everything without question liberal. I am neither and feel like debate is being completely shut down and issues reduced to nothing more than inspirational memes on social media.

VestalVirgin · 24/07/2017 09:24

You are either a right wing bigot or an accepting of everything without question liberal.

Actually, the TRAs know very well indeed that their worst enemy are feminists. Hence the slur "terf".

It is just naive female handmaidens who think it is about right-wing bigots, women who don't want to use their heads to think for five seconds about why they use a word like "terf" when it is males who murder and rape women and gender-non-conforming males (be it transwomen or gay men) alike.

The leaders of the trans lobby know full well that women with boundaries (terfs) are their strongest opposition, and that right-wing bigots actually are their allies.

Gottagetmoving · 24/07/2017 09:32

No wonder young people are bloody confused, and suffer anxiety, and depression.
Too much over thinking and analysing everything.

Balaboosteh · 24/07/2017 09:33

I'm queer. I'll happily deflower any of you lovelies that want to qualify as lesbians for purposes of joining the protest. Grin

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