To give up on 8yo DD?

[ByeByeTether]

I have 3dc, a DS17 who despite being born to a teenage mum and having a useless father who has barely bothered with him, has turned out really well, is sensible, kind and funny. A dd6 who is lovely but clingy and accident prone (suspect dyspraxia). And dd8 who this thread is about.

During my pregnancy, abusive XH was having an affair with a 16yo girl and then had many affairs since, so things have never been easy. She was a fractious child and then went on to have some behavioural problems as a toddler - would hit other children. Despite the difficulties, I threw myself into motherhood, putting my career on hold and completely living for the children.

At around the time I left XH, dd1's behaviour deteriorated. She has no self esteem and will not accept compliments. She is violent and destructive and has 'meltdowns' every day. She's obese and very tall so I cannot physically control her.

After 3 years of begging for help but being turned away by all the professionals, the school stepped in and we now have a social worker, she's seeing CAMHS, has been accepted on to some other schemes but it feels like too little too late. The professionals are basically blaming me saying that I behave as an abuse victim and she has become the abuser. I have raised the possibility of an underlying condition such as ASD. They don't seem interested in exploring this avenue.

My problem is, I have nothing left emotionally or physically, to try and sort this out. I am quite ill with a chronic condition so I have barely any energy. I do not enjoy my DD's company and our bond is severely fractured. I don't know if I can get that back. I hate my situation and motherhood, it's now affecting my relationship with dd(6) and I am withdrawing further and further.

Their relationship with their dad (XH) is complicated. He's controlling and abusive to me still. He's seeing them EOW at the moment but has gone through phases of not seeing them at all and doesn't take proper care of them all the time. He would never have them full time as his girlfriends and his social life come first.

I have a week off work this week to spend with them. Usually I would be planning our time to pack in as many activities as possible but this time I don't want to do anything or go anywhere. I've spent the last week being battered by DD and I am dreading a week of the same. She's already kicked off this morning over her hair.

I have begun an online parenting course and signed up to emails from a parenting site but I feel like I'm past the point of being able to turn it around. I feel totally and utterly trapped with just one way out but I don't want to leave my DC without a parent and I could never do that to my family. Does anyone have any advice about where I go from here or has experienced similar? What do you do when you are at the end?

Good Morning ByeBye
I usually lurk among the teenage threads.

I have no experience of this, but I wanted to know you have my deepest sympathies. Despite some posters criticism it is NOT your fault.
There some posters who are offering very good advice and I hope that some of it helps you.

And it's great to see people like Maryz and Corythatwas still around after years on Mumsnet, and offering sensible opinions based on experience.

Hugs and

Littlebird, OP can't take her child running , swimming or camping because she is chronically exhausted by a physical condition. How can you help if you don't read the thread?

What consequences does she get for trashing the room, hitting you?

I have been through something very similar with my DD. We saw a systemic family psychotherapist and things improved in about 2 months.

a) Give tons of positive comments - around 6-1 ratio of the things you say to her
b) Disengage from meltdowns, leave her to it, or just say you'll talk when she's calmed down
c) Clear consequences and warnings - use 1, 2, 3 Magic - always follow through
d) Alignment of both parents to same routines and methods and messages given to DD - this is the trickiest with an ex partner but one of the most crucial

I never imagined it would get better but it did. Everyone told me it could be ASD but it wasn't.

Oh and just to add, for DD, they thought it was low frustration levels, anger at the divorce and a realisation she was getting a lot out of the meltdowns (negative attention) so the behaviour worked for her in many ways.

This is something that has really helped my 8 year old DD.

It's hard to read as she's dyslexic but each finger is a quality that she thinks she has (climbing, gymnastics, singing, drawing, kindness & baking).

Whenever she finds herself particularly anxious or argumentative, we ask her to consider which of her fingers will help her overcome the situation.

She just got in a state about her brother unfairly raking a turn at Pictionary. She was heading for a meltdown but instead made a mug cake!!

GPlan, what a brilliant idea!

Pengggwn "I am just not sure that shutting yourself up whilst your 8 year old destroys the house, letting her have whatever she wants in order to avoid meltdowns and sending her to see an abusive father is normal parenting."

You still do not get it, do you?

I think this situation is not normal. I think it has moved beyond normal. But that is not all down to the OP. The OP has said she supported her daughter in not seeing her dad. She put in place normal methods of control and discipline but these seemed to depend on her being able to physically control her child.

Once she lost the ability to do so, due to her own reduced capacity and her dd's superior strength and size (for an 8 year old) then she was not longer able to control the behaviour.

OP has shown by repeated posts that she has tried so much, for so long, to do this well and get help.

I totally agree the kids should not see their abusive dad and I am so sad so many kids, and by extension ex wives and ex partners, are forced to continue relationships with abusive men. But not all of this is within the OP's control.

"... I do believe her daughter tonne at risk at the moment." I also believe the OP and her 6 year old are risk.

"She either needs to get to grips with Thisbe behaviour or let someone else step up to the plate. I say that kindly as this situation sounds horrendous."

And I think the OP would probably love someone to step in and help her, but it has not been offered. The stepping 'up to the plate' AGAIN suggests that there is something you think that the OP could do and is not doing. As another poster said peng are you on the same thread as everyone else?

"And this can never be the child's fault, I hope we can agree on this." What do you mean about fault? Do you mean do I blame a child for being disturbed, no I don't but if she is going off to look for her 6 year old sister to hurt her, then yes, I would blame her for that behavior unless you are saying she is not at all responsible for inflicting physical harm on her younger sibling. Would you say she is not responsible for her actions?

And more to the point if this continues until she is of the age 10 or older her sister (or another person attacked by her) could bring charges.

However, rather than play the blame game, which your posts seems to suggest, I'd rather think about things that may work to keep everyone mentally and physically safe.

Yep. Let's just blame the child and label her as being mental

Anyone suggesting she put her child into care is just proving that they don't understand.

If you've been through this and been to the low point op is at you know for a fact that there is no foster care available.

The system is overstretched, op would have to wait months potentially to get relief foster care, in my area I was quoted 12-18 months.

They aren't just families (equipped to foster children with additional needs) sitting twiddling their thumbs and waiting. It really doesn't work like that

hasitcometothis33 I am not labeling the child. I am saying she must in some way be responsible for her actions, and in order to discipline or attempt to control her the parent has to acknowledge that the child must have some control. If she genuinely cannot control her actions where will this end. My own dd has been aggressive towards me but not towards other adults.

If this child literally has no control over her actions this suggests that there is something seriously wrong. Do you not think this is a situaton where something is seriously wrong. I don't want to play the blame game but it seems that people feel they must, blame the mum or the child.

That won't help anyone, the issue is what can be done to change this.

It is not an insult to have mental health issues. It is not cruel to recognize these if they are the issue.

Indeed to ignore the damage the child is doing to her mum, sister and home is the same shit that has got the OP into a situation where she has to try and escape her own child.

Pretending it is a normal parenting situation where the mum can just use a few behavioral charts and all is well will help no one, not the child or her sister or her mum.

minor "there is no foster care available" My son was in foster care for a year before he joined our family. There is foster care, it is incredibly over stretched. And it may well not be right for the OP's dd anyway. But admitting she is at the end of her tether may well mean that at least social services are more aware of what they are dealing with.

My friend adopted a child who very sadly had to go into foster care as a teenager. It was very unfortunate, not something anyone wanted, but I think various people were at risk.

So you may well think there is no foster care available, and you may well be right in your area. But I know that there is sometimes foster care and I know I am right about that small fact!

The question is really, what is best for the OP's dd and what help might the OP be offered in her area if the specialists took her seriously and saw her real need.

I mean My friend adopted a child (as a young child) who very sadly had to go into foster care as a teenager.

Yes there is foster care in certain circumstances, what I meant was that it isn't as simple as saying you can't cope and handing your child over.
Unfortunately there are much more severe and urgent cases which of course must take priority

Not read the replies yet but this sounds very very much like attachment disorder to me - it can occur for a number of reasons but he's early childhood with issues going on and her current behaviour - I do suspect. Have a read about it and maybe revisit your GP? Lots of love it sounds very tough x

OP ignore each and every critical post I urge you

But do read the good ones as Italian said there are some wise people here and listen to their advice

Focus on the great advice and ignore the critical ones as I have learnt from this thread too

I agree with PP said about the plane analogy / if you can focus on yourself as far as is possible that will make you a lot stronger

I am pleased you posted and re read the better posts when you have time

MinorRSole I believe I explicitly said the OP would not just be able to hand her child over, nor am I recommending that.

Peng I think it is best if I stop engaging with you.

Of course you are entitled to your views.

I think she would be better putting the little one in foster care if she is at risk, instead of further damaging the eight year old

user1495025590 that is a terrible idea. The older child needs some special help but taking away her sister is a truly terrible idea. It snakes of punishing her mum!

It snacks of punishing the mum. I mean.

sending the 8 yr old away smacks of punishing the 8 yr old.Inflicting further damage on an already damaged child.

There is also a risk that it will indirectly punish the younger child, because it will give her the message that a) that this is your fault, your sister was taken away because of you and b) this could happen to you too if you're not good enough

I do have experience from another family where one child hurt another and the family did manage to keep together and overcome their problems. I remember the injured sibling telling me once that though she felt hard done by at the time, as she grew older she had come to realise that her whole inner sense of safety depended on that knowledge of unconditional love, knowing that there would literally be nothing she could do that was bad enough to lose her her parents' love.

But that was a strong and well-resourced family (two very committed parents, both in good health). The OP does seem to be in a particularly difficult situation, given her health issues and an ex who is not to be trusted. Her situation is very different and she certainly sounds like she needs more help.

user1495025590 trained therapeutic foster care might help the 8 year old. The 6 year old does not need it.

corythatwas a stronger two-parent family could definitely cope with more. I know where you are coming from about the unconditional love but realistically there does sometimes come a breaking point in families.

If people have not spent time around foster carers and the adoption system they may feel not living without birth parents is like the end of the world. But I just feel one has to think what is best for all the vulnerable members of the family. Taking one vulnerable child out of the equation may well help her temporarily but won't solve the prpblemds.

OP how are you?

I'm not good to be honest. I'm starting to wonder if this is the beginning of a nervous breakdown.

Things haven't even been that bad with DD1 the last couple of days. Well, comparatively anyway. But I've still not enjoyed their company. They've been fighting a lot which is the one thing that stresses me out more than anything else.

I keep thinking I need to take them out, do something with them but I don't want to leave the house. The thought of going anywhere in public and being around people is making me anxious which is a new thing that's been getting worse the last few months. If I didn't have to go to work, I honestly don't think I'd leave the house ever again. I don't want to get dressed even. I'm realising that I'm horribly depressed but I don't want to take antidepressants because of the side effects.

It's s vicious cycle though because the more depressed I get, the less I feel able to do the things that would help my situation. I don't even care about the negative comments about me on this thread or by the professionals. I feel completely numb and like a failure anyway. I feel quite detached from reality actually but i think that's my illness in part. I just think I've lost all hope and I don't want to try anymore. I don't know where to start.

Maybe if it was just this thing but there is so much shit to sort and extra problems, shit I shouldn't be dealing with. This is going to out me but I was given negligent legal advice when I separated from my ex husband and the upshot is, I let him keep all the marital assets including the five bed home with a large amount of equity which was also my childhood home whilst I moved into a tiny three bed rental half an hour from the DC's school. According to advice I've had, I can still pursue a fair share through the courts which would enable us to move into a bigger property closer to their school which would solve some of our problems but I don't know if I've got it in me to fight him. He will make me suffer if go after his money. The longer I leave it, the lower my chances. How am I meant to do this with everything else going on? But I feel this burning injustice all the time, the bitterness eating me alive. Also, DD's CAHMS therapist has decided he is spending some sessions working with me but I found the first one quite difficult as I had to rake up some very personal and traumatic things and I hadn't realised I'd be doing that (or prepared myself) since the sessions were meant to be for DD. I don't think this has helped my mental state really.

I feel really touched that so many people have taken the time to post and I've had a few PMs. I don't feel like I deserve it though. I really wish I had the mental energy to reply to everyone personally but I'm trying to stay off my phone as I just use it to distract myself from my reality and I've found the kids play up more when I do that, as you'd expect.

I wish I had something positive to say.