To tell my brother he needs to get a job despite depression

[mangovanila]

My brother and his wife are both 40, she has a son who's 22 but they don't have any children together. My brother hasn't worked in two years as he says his depression is too bad, SIL works every hour under the sun as a HCA even though her own health is deteriorating.

They lived in wales and decided they wanted to move back here to be closer to family so they gave up their council house to private rent. Every place they're in they decide they don't like and after six months they leave and go somewhere else. They've just moved in to a new flat which they seem to like and hopefully won't be moving anymore!

Her dad brought them a car around a year ago then asked for the money back! They didn't have it so they took out a loan for £4000 to repay her dad for the car. They managed to convince my mum and dad 66 and 69 to act as guarantors for this loan. They're retired but have worked hard all their life and own their home but have very little money. I think they sort of felt pressured to help their son out.

So they took the 4K out and a few months later they decided they where moving again so needed money for deposit etc and they decided they wanted to pay off all their debts in one hit. They increased the loan to a total of £1000 with repayments of around £400 a month. They moved but I don't see where this money went, they didn't even get a removal man, my 69 year old dad put all the stuff in the back of his 4x4 and moved it for them.

Recently brother and SIL have been going through financial difficulties. They brought two puppies, one who needed urgent medical attention which cleaned them out. He was telling me how he didn't know how he would even make the rent this month. He told me how they haven't been able to pay the loan repayments in 5 months so my mum has had to pay them as she's guarantor. They also left their old flat with one months rent owing which my mum had to pay as she stood guarantor and didn't want her credit rating affected. He was previously getting esa but has been taken away now due to SIL increased earnings.

So the other day my mum and dad went away in their caravan and they came back with no caravan. I asked what had happened and dad said they'd sold it to a man down there as they needed the money. They got around £2000 for it. They've just asked me if I could help them with the big food shop this month as they're broke.

Brother says he intends to start repayments as soon as they get back on track and says that hopefully they're getting some money soon from a personal injury claim SIL made from a car accident she had. I've asked him why he doesn't look for a job and he says he can't handle it.

AIBU if I tell him to man up and get a job because he has financial commitments? I wouldn't care if it wasn't for my mum and dad suffering because they've taken out loans they can't afford and my poor dad having to sell his caravan which he loves. I know some will think my parents are naive and stupid but I really think they just wanted to help him, even though they are out of pocket dramatically they will be content suffering if it means he has what he wants. They would do it for any of their kids but it doesn't make it right.

None of your business. They're all adults and need to sort it out themselves. All you can do is support your parents as best you can.

Actually * Sparrowhawk", if this is true, They've just asked me if I could help them with the big food shop this month as they're broke. then it is the OP's business.

OP - I agree absolutely with you. A horrible situation all round. Not sure exactly what you can do though.

Your brother doesn't sound depressed, he sounds selfish and irresponsible. Has he been diagnosed and if so, what is his treatment plan? Meds, counselling, exercise? He needs to act, not sit around waiting for his parents to rescue him.

In other words, yanbu

It's not as simple as "man up and get a job" when you're suffering from a mental health condition so YABVVVU and ignorant about that.

Depression doesn't automatically mean unable to work. DH had to fight to get a sick note when he was briefly depressed a few years ago. Are you sure you've gotten the full story about his health problems?

What medical treatment is he receiving?

He has been diagnosed as depressed yes but deemed fit to work which is another reason his esa has been stopped. His doctor has encouraged him to look for part time work at least. He is on anti depressants, doctor tells him he should to to the gym etc to try to help his mood but he doesn't act on it. He has been diagnosed as depressed for around 5 years but has worked since then so I don't see why he can't now.

The doctor has told him he doesn't think he is unfit to work and encouraged him looking for a part time job. He was also referred to a back to work programme that helps with things like cvs etc but he doesn't attend. He says that his doctor knows nothing and he doesn't like going because of his doctor attitude. I myself have bipolar and work full time so I completely understand what it's like to have a mental illness and work. Personally, I find it more grating on my mental health to sit at home doing nothing than to be up and working but I know everyone is different.

but deemed fit to work which is another reason his esa has been stopped

If he had a medical assessment with the ESA people and was declared fit to work then I'd call bullshit. They turn down as many people as possible in the hopes they won't appeal (if they do appeal, they'll actually get their case looked at properly). The system is notoriously bad and regularly declares people fit to work who are nowhere near.

has worked since then so I don't see why he can't now.

Because conditions change, perhaps? He must be feeling like he can't handle it now where he could before.

Yes I do have the full story on his health issues as I was responsible for putting together his evidence etc when he appealed the claim for esa which was again rejected. He is diagnosed with "moderate depression" and is on 100mg of sertraline.

It's a horrible situation but do not bail any of them out! You'll just be enabling the sorry situation to continue, and it'll have to be resolved at some point (you'll have just wasted a load of money to ensure this sitatuion drags on for months or years instead of being addressed sooner).

your parents don't need your money, they need your support and help!

Regardless of what anyone else says or thinks, only he knows whether he can truly handle it or not.

If he had a broken leg would you still be berating him about getting a job?

They've obviously both made some dreadful decisions.

Where is SILs father with all of this now? Sold the car to them and walked away?

I'm not berating him about getting a job I'm asking him to do what he needs to do to meet the demands of what he has signed for, which is the loan. He knew when he took it out he wouldn't be able to afford it but still got two new puppies and managed to go to Greece for 2 weeks last month. My mum should not be struggling for food because of him. Personally if I couldn't work and I had financial commitments that where making my parents suffer, I would work regardless of what ever health situation I was in because I am a grown woman who has financial responsibilities that are detrimental to someone if I didn't.

SIL father lives in wales, he's an alcoholic and pretty much no use to them. They won't ask her family for help because none of them have any money.

Personally if I couldn't work and I had financial commitments that where making my parents suffer, I would work regardless of what ever health situation I was in because I am a grown woman who has financial responsibilities that are detrimental to someone if I didn't.

Bullshit. More ignorance.

I couldn't work for many years. No amount of financial trouble or any other trouble we were in could have made me work because I was too fucking terrified.

You can't just "get over it" and get a job when you have mental health issues that prevent it. It unfortunately doesn't work like that.

Your parents have to stop agreeing to be guarantors. They are enabling his poor spending habits rather then properly helping him out by enabling him learn to take control of his spending. Your brother need financial education, not bailing out constantly. The reality is that your parents are just delaying the inevitable and also drowning with your brother. It's their choice and now they are choosing to pull you down with them and in helping your parents, you are also enabling your brother. Personally I'd only give them cash as long as they promised me they would never ever act as guarantors for brother ever again. I would also have very strong words with your brother.

Going to greece whilst financially fucking over his parents is a totally different issue to a job. If he can afford a holiday, he can afford to pay back some money

Irresponsible spending can be part of MH problems. Probably the best thing to do for your brother would be to get a debt management outfit invoved (Step Change are government-backed and free) to reduce the loan repayments etc and maybe even write some of it off.

Whattodoaboutthis2017

Are you missing that
-The doctor has encouraged him to seek part time work
-His esa claim and appeal has been rejected
-He has been referred to a back to work service by his GP

None of the medical evidence suggests that he is unfit to work, hence why I am encouraging him to seek work. Thousands of people have depression and still work, being depressed doesn't automatically mean you're unfit to work.

I can understand struggling to work with depression. That certainly means living with no extras or luxuries, which is the norm for many.
They should cut their cloth to fit. They can't afford 4K cars or holidays abroad or pricey pets. It very selfish to make your parents pay for their luxuries. Very entitled.

Regardless of whether or not you decide to lend your parents money, what your brother does or does not do is not within your control.

There is nothing whatsoever you can do about the situation.

So it sounds like he's depressed but not severely depressed then. In which case he should try part time at least.

I am no longer talking specifically about your brother. I am addressing the bullshit ignorant comment you just made about how you would step up to work despite mental health issues because you're a "grown woman".

It's just bollocks. Ignorant bollocks.