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AIBU?

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Original poster

To tell my brother he needs to get a job despite depression

150 replies

mangovanila · 19/07/2017 10:52

My brother and his wife are both 40, she has a son who's 22 but they don't have any children together. My brother hasn't worked in two years as he says his depression is too bad, SIL works every hour under the sun as a HCA even though her own health is deteriorating.

They lived in wales and decided they wanted to move back here to be closer to family so they gave up their council house to private rent. Every place they're in they decide they don't like and after six months they leave and go somewhere else. They've just moved in to a new flat which they seem to like and hopefully won't be moving anymore!

Her dad brought them a car around a year ago then asked for the money back! They didn't have it so they took out a loan for £4000 to repay her dad for the car. They managed to convince my mum and dad 66 and 69 to act as guarantors for this loan. They're retired but have worked hard all their life and own their home but have very little money. I think they sort of felt pressured to help their son out.

So they took the 4K out and a few months later they decided they where moving again so needed money for deposit etc and they decided they wanted to pay off all their debts in one hit. They increased the loan to a total of £1000 with repayments of around £400 a month. They moved but I don't see where this money went, they didn't even get a removal man, my 69 year old dad put all the stuff in the back of his 4x4 and moved it for them.

Recently brother and SIL have been going through financial difficulties. They brought two puppies, one who needed urgent medical attention which cleaned them out. He was telling me how he didn't know how he would even make the rent this month. He told me how they haven't been able to pay the loan repayments in 5 months so my mum has had to pay them as she's guarantor. They also left their old flat with one months rent owing which my mum had to pay as she stood guarantor and didn't want her credit rating affected. He was previously getting esa but has been taken away now due to SIL increased earnings.

So the other day my mum and dad went away in their caravan and they came back with no caravan. I asked what had happened and dad said they'd sold it to a man down there as they needed the money. They got around £2000 for it. They've just asked me if I could help them with the big food shop this month as they're broke.

Brother says he intends to start repayments as soon as they get back on track and says that hopefully they're getting some money soon from a personal injury claim SIL made from a car accident she had. I've asked him why he doesn't look for a job and he says he can't handle it.

AIBU if I tell him to man up and get a job because he has financial commitments? I wouldn't care if it wasn't for my mum and dad suffering because they've taken out loans they can't afford and my poor dad having to sell his caravan which he loves. I know some will think my parents are naive and stupid but I really think they just wanted to help him, even though they are out of pocket dramatically they will be content suffering if it means he has what he wants. They would do it for any of their kids but it doesn't make it right.

OP posts:
Original poster
mangovanila · 19/07/2017 11:30

I would not be as angry if the medical evidence backed up how claims but it simply does not. He also doesn't follow doctors advice about going to the gym etc in order to improve his mood (he was given a free gym membership) but not only doesn't he go, he then lies to his doctor and says he goes everyday but that it does not help when he hasn't set foot in there once.

OP posts:
user1492692527 · 19/07/2017 11:31

He knew when he took it out he wouldn't be able to afford it but still got two new puppies and managed to go to Greece for 2 weeks last month

This leapt out at me! No wonder he doesn't want to work!!

DerelictWreck · 19/07/2017 11:32

AIBU if I tell him to man up and get a job because he has financial commitments

YADBU to use the phrase 'man up and get a job' it's disgusting and derogatory and inflammatory.

Grow up

Original poster
mangovanila · 19/07/2017 11:32

Whattodoaboutthis2017

If my kids where starving, I couldn't care what issues I had going on, I would do anything to provide for them.

OP posts:
SylviaPoe · 19/07/2017 11:34

'If my kids where starving, I couldn't care what issues I had going on, I would do anything to provide for them.'

I have been in this position and was still not capable of working.

I'm not sure what you feel you would and would not be able to do in any potential mental health situation has got to do with making generalisations about everyone else.

Original poster
mangovanila · 19/07/2017 11:35

If we did not have the generous benefit system that we do and instead had an economy and welfare system similar to Africa or another third world country, the truth is we would have to fend for ourselves regardless. I don't know about anyone else but if I didn't have the luxury of falling back on benefits then I would do everything I needed to do in order to make sure my kids where fed.

OP posts:
WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 19/07/2017 11:39

If my kids where starving, I couldn't care what issues I had going on, I would do anything to provide for them.

You can't know that. Many people have been in exactly that position and been unable to work. Having responsibilities while you're ill does not mean you will be able to work. It actually means you're far more likely to fail due to the increased pressure.

The ignorance you're spouting here is dangerous and detrimental; please stop it.

BarbarianMum · 19/07/2017 11:39

If someone had a broken leg but was ignoring the doctors advice to wear a cadt/rest it whilst simultaneously using it as a reason why they couldn't work then I'd challenge them.

With moderate depression it is not as simple as "manning up" or wanting to get better. But neither is it an excuse for doing/trying nothing to improve your condition. Yes it is hard - its hard with lots of conditions both physical and mental - but you have to help yourself as well as expecting others to help you.

SylviaPoe · 19/07/2017 11:40

Many children do starve to death in third world countries, or end up living on the streets, or in orphanages.

The same used to happen in this country too.

What's your point?

You seem to be attempting to morally justify something way beyond whether or not your brother should own a sick puppy and go on holiday.

user1476869312 · 19/07/2017 11:40

When people have to 'fend for themselves regardless' many, including children, die from poverty-related causes, no matter how willing they may be to work.
I imagine your frustration is partly due to feeling that your parents favour and indulge your brother (which may well be true) but don't buy into the harmful bullshit that poor people are inherently lazy and bring about their own troubles. We live in a very messed up economic climate where a small group of wealthy individuals have systematically extracted money from everyone else for decades.
If your brother and GF were managing to fund themselves via benefits rather than ripping off your parents (which is, I agree, unethical) I would think: good luck to them.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 19/07/2017 11:41

It sounds to me like he is being given all sorts of support which he is rejecting without real reason because his wife and your parents bail him out. At the same time, stupid decisions are being made (puppies, holidays and multiple moves). I think you need to be clear to your parents at least re your capacity to help, which is zero. Sounds like you have enough on your plate (and possibly fewer supports). I am so sorry that your parents had to sell their caravan :(.

brasty · 19/07/2017 11:41

Moderate depression is very common, and most people who have it do work.

SerfTerf · 19/07/2017 11:43

I would not be as angry if the medical evidence backed up how claims but it simply does not

What on earth?!

Do you think there are blood tests for depression? MRIs?

What "medical evidence" are you talking about?

SylviaPoe · 19/07/2017 11:45

As far as I understand it, being referred to a fit for work scheme does not mean you are fit for work. Many people on them are signed off from work while they get specialist help to prepare them for work.

If you are entirely ready for work, there's no point going on one.

SerfTerf · 19/07/2017 11:48

The first rule of standing guarantor is that you only guarantee what you could afford to pay if called on to.

Your parents have been silly. Hopefully that's a lesson learned.

As far as your DB, you sound nasty. There is no "medical evidence" for depression. If he's being told to go to the gym and he's not going, that's quite attributable to the apathy of depression and you are very unkind to portray it as laziness.

I've cared for a close relative with severe depression. It IS frustrating and sad to watch but you have to have empathy and understand how depression works.

If you're just going to snipe and bitch you should back right off.

Your parents have to take financial responsibility for themselves. Your DB and SIL should get a benefits check as he's clearly not recovered yet.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 19/07/2017 11:49

has worked since then so I don't see why he can't now.

I worked from the age of 16, for over a decade. I cant work now. My mental health and my physical health has deteriorated rapidly in the last few years.

To be honest OP, you don't sound like you have a very good grasp on mental health issues. The fact he failed an ESA medical doesn't mean he actually IS fit for work. It's well ijown that they're refusing people for the sake of it at the minute, a 'Health Care Professional' who's done nothing more than a two week training course is not the same as a qualified mental health practioner who knows how these conditions vary.

You're not obliged to help him with the shopping. If you can't spare it just say no.

AwaywiththePixies27 · 19/07/2017 11:51

If we did not have the generous benefit system that we do and instead had an economy and welfare system similar to Africa or another third world country, the truth is we would have to fend for ourselves regardless. I don't know about anyone else but if I didn't have the luxury of falling back on benefits then I would do everything I needed to do in order to make sure my kids where fed.

Luxury? Hmm

PeggyPatchandPoppy · 19/07/2017 11:52

Depression isn't a get out of jail free card. He owes money he needs to get a job.

ALittleMop · 19/07/2017 11:53

He may or may not be fit for work, it's kind of irrelevant. He should be capable of assessing whether he can afford a new car, holidays and new pets, when he is causing his parents financial hardship. It's selfish and unkind behaviour.

The OP is right to flag this up as a problem for - now - the whole family.

The OP's parents are not helping their son by cushioning him from natural consequences of living - a lot - beyond his means. If you're skint, and depressed, or working hard to support - financially and mentally - a partner with debilitating depression I can see why you might think you need a holiday, or pets, as a way of looking after your own wellbeing. That's fair enough, but not to the extent that your elderly parents can't afford to eat properly.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 19/07/2017 11:54

OP
You say you have bi-polar. Is there any chance your DB has it too? He has been diagnosed with depression but there also seems to be a lot of impulsive decision making without considering the consequences going on.

Just a thought?

AwaywiththePixies27 · 19/07/2017 11:56

I would not be as angry if the medical evidence backed up how claims but it simply does not

Wow. So you know the results of his PHQ-9 test for example then?...

AwaywiththePixies27 · 19/07/2017 11:57

Depression isn't a get out of jail free card.

Really? I should hope its not too given it's not a criminal offence to suffer from a mental health condition.

What strikingly ignorant bollocks.

SerfTerf · 19/07/2017 11:57

Depression isn't a get out of jail free card. He owes money he needs to get a job.

Well you can say that about almost any medical condition, can't you?

But if it in fact making it impossible to work, then it's sever and it's a problem.

Moralising at very depressed people does no good, I'm sure you'll be astonished to learn.

SerfTerf · 19/07/2017 11:58

Severe not sever.

SylviaPoe · 19/07/2017 11:58

The obvious thing to do in this situation is to accept that they cannot afford the loan repayments, create a budget planner with whoever gave them the loan, and organise lower loan repayments. That way, the parents will not have to help with the loan repayments.

And of course debt repayment budgets allow amounts to cover the cost of both pet ownership and leisure activities.

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