AIBU to be ready to just give it all up because of childs lies

[FP239]

I am a mum to 5 beautiful kids. Me eldest was a picture perfect kid until around age 11. Then the lies started right after the transition from juniors to seniors.

They have been unable to keep long term friends and flit between groups, are outcast for bad behaviour/compulsive lies and it goes on and on. My heart breaks as I love them so much and they seem so miserable. They have told social services I am abusing them all and need to be arrested/sectioned for their safety. Told school they are a full time carer for me and my other children. Ruined any family trips/holidays that we have been on and had other people constantly comment to me about their bad behaviour and lack of respect towards me. They took themselves into hospital after hearing voices and refused to leave the bed for 5 days . Told the doctors I detest them and they wished me dead ( never ever possibly true) .Eventually the mental health team said they didn't believe them as the story changed every two minutes and depending on who they were talking too. Diagnosis-attention seeking. I had to redo my whole year at uni as the stress over my exam period meant that I was useless for the month.

They have claimed to have cancer twice, then been victimised and horribly bullied due to this and threatened suicide constantly. Lots of risky sexual behaviour like sending underage naked pics of themselves while a sibling was in bed next to them.

They lie horrifically to immediate family members knowing that I will find out within hours and have to go through damage control. And my partner is as soft as jelly and when I raise an issue, says that we don't know the entire story and need to speak to our now 19 year old child to find out the truth. They will say that the family member is lying and he will believe it totally. I finally got them an appointment with mental health and told them EVERYTHING. Got a diagnosis of emotionally unstable border line personality disorder for our adult child and got sent home. No therapy, but can apply for a 6 week course of CBT with a trainee. They wont engage in it.

My life feels like its in ruins. My best friend of 24 years has just been in touch and my 19 year old has been going around saying they were in a nightclub with them and they were doing hard drugs and were embarrassingly drunk at 4am. Not true, I know she was at home watching love island. Everybody has been very tolerant over the years but now these rumours could very seriously affect my friends business and her credibility within her field. I am literally at my wits end with this shit. Its getting to where I have bursts of pure rage over the friends and opportunities that my child and their illness have caused me. Why cant they just NOT LIE?! We have been told time and time again its attention seeking behaviour (for attnetion from other people, not just us) but I can't take it anymore. They can not hold down a job for more than 6 weeks and lurch from disaster to disaster.

I am fed up it. My life is a constant tense wait for the next massive drama they bring home, the next fight I have with my partner and my own mental health is in absolute shreds. I don't know what to do. But my instinct is to get our little rental property empty and send my partner and our adult child to live there to give my younger kids some peace and respite from this non stop shit storm. My partner and adult child will say I am out of order and abandoning my parental responsibilities. WTF do I do? This is destroying us all.

So, AIBU to send them to live apart from us for a while. Has anybody ever experienced anything like this?Any advice at all as I am at breaking point.

FP I didn't want to have to go into personal details but if it might help, I will do it then I'll have to NC. But I want you to understand why I've said what I said.

I was raped repeatedly by a family member at the same age that your daughter said she was raped, and reacted very similarly. Rage, desperately trying to get attention any way I could, thought if I went off the rails enough someone might notice and help me, save me. Nobody cared so it got worse and worse. The comments in particular that you made about having no identity, being a chameleon, struck such a chord it brought tears to my eyes.

Twenty years later I finally straightened myself out, am happily married, have DC, am off antidepressants and have a successful, happy life. But it was a long road, and much longer than it would have been had my family given me proper support. And I didn't even have the courage to tell them about the rape for a long time, whereas (if it did happen) your daughter did.

Just please think carefully about what triggered this. I am not saying you haven't tried to help, you obviously have. But what is needed I think is to somehow understand how it has got to this point, go back to where it started and work from there.

I hope you get through this. I don't speak to my mother at all anymore.

FP the lack of self identity and the chameleon thing and it happening at 11 ( school, hormones, differing social rules) is very in keeping with HFA in girls. It can present very differently in girls. I'm not saying it is this but It's quite common to only become apparent at this stage.

My DD HFA and my ASD son are worlds apart from eachother and my moderate ASD son I worry less about than my DD who is very able, verbal and clever but lacks self identity, can maintain friendships so moves round friends a lot and is anxious.

Does she copy others for example if she's around someone for an amount of time, will she start to speak like them? Talk like them and develop overnight similar interest?

The lines between BPD and ASD in girls can be very blurry, they both share very similar traits (poor social communication skills, black and white thinking), I think it can be very tricky especially if there is trauma involved to work out what is what. Is she able to say No ( not in anger or to you, but to friends she wants to impress?) what scares me the most with girls who fit this pattern is they are so vulnerable they end up getting abused and the cycle.

The problem with personality disorder though is that it's not easily treatable. For the most part the families of the people I work with that have this condition have had to take a step back and in some cases cut contact for long periods, and then reinstate it with strict boundaries because the stress in them and their other kids proves to be just too great.
Sorry op-it's a rubbish situation for you all.

@toconclude You're so far off the mark it's laughable! If yours is the level of understanding and comprehension out there it's no wonder things are getting worse. You read what I wrote and that's the conclusion you came up with? That I take some sort of pleasure out of watching a generation of young people fall to pieces? Read it again and see if you can do better.

It seems that people like yourself are so buy tripping over themselves to be understanding and PC, they're missing the actual issues. You are not listening. Your reply to my posts is a case in point.

As for your little passive agressive dig about 'hoping to God', save it. I can sniff out insincerity at 100 paces and you reek of it.

Op, I feel for you, you're in such a difficult position and it sounds as though you have tried so hard at every given opportunity

I think kittybiscuits mentioned up thread... DBT (dialectical behavioural therapy). I would seriously try to pursue this through the NHS. It's used extensively for BPD and in my health trust we provide group sessions, where patients are referred by there MHT. Is she not currently under the CMHT or a crisis team? I would expect there so be at least some ongoing support given the circumstance, especially as she has been inpatient. I think you should keep pushing the GP for a referral to CMHT, you all desperately and understandably need far more support then you're receiving.

She is ill. BPD is frequently linked to trauma, and particularly sexual abuse. I agree with previous posters who implore you not to go down the 'washing your hands of her' route, but you have all my empathy as it's not an easy illness to support some one with. Not to mention when that some one is your DD who you're so emotionally entwined with and of course you need a break and respite. I really hope you can keep pushing for the support for services you and her are due.

while i'm on my soapbox, why are people with BPD expected to 'work hard' at getting better? there is no better. borderline personality disorder is lifelong, and life-limiting.

would you tell a depressed person to try harder at cheering up? i hope not. please also try not to demonise BPD. it doesn't help at all.

" there is no better.

Yes. There is. There may never be a best, but life can improve greatly for both the patient, and the family around them, with effective treatment.

App,y to have them sectioned! Borderline Personality disorder can be medicated and if there is a threat to herself or others it may be necessary. Might seem extreme but then so is the behaviour.

I was recently diagnosed with eupd and i am 10 weeks into dbt and its hard soul-searching work every week. Not every NHS trust provides this unfortunately and theres no follow up after this courses despite specialists recommending a third tier therapy such as Cat/cft therapy which is apparently to do with maintaing relationships.
The only reason i am doing the course is because a new trust took over the mental health provision for the area.

Eupd/bpd can be "treated" and improvements can be made to the point where the diagnosis can be reversed. Im not going to say cured. Its one of the few personality disorders that can be reversed but its a long process and requires a lot of support and work put in. Unfortunately it sounds like your daughter hasn't reached the point where she is able to start making changes, accepting therapy. I found it hard, i still sob my heart out at my diagnosis especially when i read things on the internet about it especially when people make comments such as "bunny boilers" etc. Just like "not all x will do y' not all of us eupd are attention seekers or toxic people. Someone of us just struggle with our emotions and some are just numb.

Your daughter alienates you as part of the "i hate you/dont leave me" cycle of rejection before she gets rejected.

It does sound like something traumatic happened when she was 11 as you said that she was "wiped clean".

Please dont demonise people with eupd/bpd as its hard enough to live your life with heightened emotional responses and the doubt and self loathing that so many of us have and if im honest "washing your hands" of a person with bdp is a horrific thing to do as the fear of being abandoned is a major underlying feature of bdp. Would you "wash your hands" of someone who is depressed or has schizophrenia? What a horrid and frankly distressing thought that if you arent 100% "normal" then people dont want you around. Why not set up a leper colony for those of us who dont fit the "normal" label

Mental health affects 1 in 4 of us and bpd affects 1%of the population not to mention that many people arent diagnosed.

gingergenius

She is not an immediate danger to herself, nor is she an immediate physical danger to anyone else.

If she has a personality disorder, she can't be sectioned. It's not 'insanity', it's an ingrained pattern of behaviour.

Gingernaut useful to know. It does sound that there are complex issues at play and as pp have previously said the MH provision is in total disarray. It wasn't said flippantly so apologies if that's how it came across.

@Pandoraslastchance that is an excellent and insightful post

Have you requested any counseling for yourself? It might help you make a decision.

Also to what degree are your other children affected? Are they coping ok with the situation or is it making them struggle?

Lastly, I speak from experience (my dad) but it's absolutely shit not to have anywhere safe to leave your stuff so please offer your other kids an option. A lock on the door, a little safe like thing or just a secure box just so they know what they leave in their room stays there.

Reborn I totally agree with you.

I'm 24 and the ridiculous % of my peers who;

• expect to have their dream job upon leaving college/university with shite grades
• expect the state to house them and pay their bills
• have mental health issues
• have huge amounts of debt
• who have dozens of sexual partners and don't give a hoot about stds and pregnancy

My generation is fucked. It's horrible.

OP I genuinely think you need to cut her loose and focus on your other kids. But you're not their friend. You're their mum.

Christ, there's some awful advice on this thread, with a few notable exceptions. I'm really appalled tbh.

Your daughter is not the problem here, OP. She needs expert, long-term help and support, not blame and rejection - and certainly not a full page ad in the local paper outlining her shortcomings, wtff.

Sell or rent out the flat, OP, and sink every penny you have into getting her good quality psychotherapeutic help before you have a family catastrophe on your hands.

A person I know had a terrible time through early adulthood much like your DD from the sound of it.

They lied and lied about little things, big things, anything! you could be looking at the sky say it was blue and they would lie to your face that it was pink.

The couldn't hold onto relationships with friends due to the lies and generally not understanding how to interact with people.

They were incredibly damaged.

They had been sexually abused by a very close (immediate) family member from a young age.

You really do need to try and get your DD some help.
I know it's hard and I know you have tried but please don't give up on her. MH services are wholly inadequate and you need to push for help everywhere you can. Your DD isn't in a place where she can help herself yet and hasn't even learnt the tools to be able to try. She needs her mum to help her tohelp herself.

Of course you need to look after yourself aswell and some talking therapy for yourself would be good. Can you go to your GP see if they can help with someone to talk to for you?

I hope things improve for you all.

You say OP that your daughter said she had been raped. She told you this when she was 13, and said the rape had happened a few years before. But by that time she had a few years of making up lies.

What I suspect happened was that she was raped at 11 years old on a sleepover. This would be a very traumatic event. She did not tell you at the time, and instead acted out her pain and anger.

I suspect the lies about being abused by you are her anger that you did not protect her and did not recognise afterwards that her pain and anger was about rape. I am not saying this was your fault, it was not. But it does not mean that she would not be angry with you. She was a child, and was punishing you by making allegations of abuse.

Because she did not get the help she needed at the time, her issues have become entrenched. So what do you do now? I think you need to get help and maybe counselling from elsewhere. Maybe from a counsellor that understands the impact of children being raped and how that affects them.

The first thing that sprang to mind when reading the OP was sexual abuse, so it wasn't a surprise to read about the rape allegation in a later post.

Friends of friends have four (now adult) children. Children one, three and four have always been normal, average, run of the mill people. Child number two was the same until his second year of high school. At that point he went really off the rails - drugs, alcohol, petty crime, etc. It didn't matter what his parents did, he wouldn't "behave". Years later it came out that he'd been sexually abused by one of his high school teachers. It came to light when a huge scandal broke and it turned out this teacher had raped dozens of his students over the years.

Obviously I have no way of knowing whether your DD's rape allegation is true or not. Nor do I know anything about BPD, and whether there's any link to previous sexual abuse. But I just wanted to share that sometimes there IS a real reason behind a sudden onset of anti social behaviour.

Equally, other times it is purely a MH/personality issue that would have happened regardless. The tricky part is figuring out which it is, as that will influence the treatment required.

Good luck OP.

I know this sounds extreme, but is there any way at all you could have her sectioned under the mental health act as a danger to herself or others? She didn't physically harm your friend, but the lies shes told that could destroy her professionally just are not fair, and shes only arround your child and in the firing line for being your friend. She needs medical help, i honestly don't think anyone could have kept up all those lies and still be doing it to such extreme for 8 years and not have gotten bored of it by now if it was just out of choice and not with a serious mental condition backing it up. I know how hard it is to fight for mental health treatment, i've had severe OCD since i was 5, not diagnosed til 15, and spent the last 13 years getting just trainees and temps who are there for 4 weeks then it takes 6 months or more to replace them. But you cannot carry on like this, for the sake of any of you.

OP I have no advice but I just wanted to say you have my every sympathy. I am thinking of you and all your family members tonight.

Sell or rent out the flat, OP, and sink every penny you have into getting her good quality psychotherapeutic help before you have a family catastrophe on your hands.

This is what I would do. If the free mental health care is so lacking, I don't see any other option.

I couldn't wash my hands of a child at 19. (Yes, even if I had another four kids to consider; that's not her fault).

I wasn't going to comment.i usually say the exact opposite to the extremely helpful stuff I want to say in my head! buth then I had to.
I think you being amazing.i think what your going through sounds horrific! I don't no hat to say.
I wanted to come and all superwoman like and tell you how to feel better how to help your dc and make everything ok for you.wrap you all up in a hug and ta daaaaa all is well....
but I know I cant.so I'm still going to offer support and love from across the virtual waves.
keep strong.try not to give up.
you know the thing that gets people through in the end.it isn't the latest medication or treatment,money or brand new machine of cures.its support.its love.its finding something inside you you've lost.slef worth.the feeling to turn it around comes from feeling your worthy of it. and your continuing to give you dc that.she will see it one day.she I will I truly believe it.and shes feel strong and able to fight back against the demons in her mind.
that doesn't stop the horror you have been through or might still go through.and I'm sorry for that.
but what your showing to her and ur other family members is extreme bravery.strength and determination to win agasint evil.even if that evil is a terrible illness
I can imgine too if your feel like this,how very scared and lonely and on the edge your dc must feel to at times.having all shes done in her head having all she feels she has to do must scare the shit out of her.
I get from your posts she was and is still lovely person.so thi isn't a case of sometimes having to give up because the person has just become or is evil.she obviously has some illness or mental health problems that causes this.that tell me it can be fought.that she Is still thre.an there lies the ability to carry on.to see a future.
keep strong.im sorry again.big hugs to all of your fam.
fingers crossed something helps soon.xx

if there is any other option please avoid section.hell on earth and ruins lives.
yes I no this is my opinion and might et flamed from it.but if you think outpatient mental health care is bad...imaine that but with your loved one trapped,your decsions taken from you too.them insdie locked away.with the same(zero)help.just behind a locked door.and away from you.

WTF, Sectioning is only used as a last resort, when the person is a danger to themselves or others or needs urgent assessment and possible medication or that treatment can only be provided if you are detained and is a horrific experience. It has to be extreme danger and certainly doesn't mean that she would get any more help than she could as an outpatient, just locked away with few rights. The fact that some are saying can't you get her sectioned shows a total lack of understanding. YOU can't get her sectioned, it takes a group of professionals to agree to section somebody and there are many steps leading up to that final decision. There are also different types of sectioning 1,2 and 3 most common. It is horrendous for everyone involved. From what you have said about her this is not an option.

Information, as you know from trying to learn about mental health, is key.

I would find a counsellor who deals with childhood abuse in adult counselling and see them yourself. That way you can explain your relationship with your dd and get dine insight into what is happening to get and how to deal with it. This is necessary whether she goes to counselling or not. You might find a cheap counselling centre in your area.

From what you have said something traumatic happened to your dd when she was 11. She has disclosed she was raped at that age. This is sadly very possible. Or out could have been something else but traumatic to her.

Ime the acting out and lies are compulsive which means she had little control over them. They are reactions to her anxiety about trusting people. She will have no idea that she is feeling anxious and that this behaviour is a result of that. It is out of her control. The lies enable her to feel control over people because ultimately she thinks subconsciously they will hurt her.

Also, her behaviour has an element of sabotage about it. She'll not realise she is doing this but she will be treating you badly in order to gain control over what she subconsciously feels is rejection.

Every time she lies it is a result of her brain defending her from further trauma.

In order for her to get help, when she is calm, start sowing the seed of her exploring counselling. You can start by talking in general terms about how most mental health issues arise from trauma and that what is traumatic for one person may not be for another. Trauma is very personal. Don't be specific about her experience or mental health. Educate her in a subtle way.

You can read about it too educate yourself but I would strongly advise you get counsel from a professional.

Tell the rest of your family she is unwell and that her behaviour is noone's fault, but that you are going to try your best to help her get better.

Ultimately, her recovery will depend on her engaging. She is more likely to engage if you remove the anger from your side and use the quiet, more open times to sow the seed about how her behaviors are defense mechanisms and how she can get help for whatever is causing it.

I would pay for it too, if NHS is not referring. She'll need long term as in years of counselling.