AIBU to be ready to just give it all up because of childs lies

[FP239]

I am a mum to 5 beautiful kids. Me eldest was a picture perfect kid until around age 11. Then the lies started right after the transition from juniors to seniors.

They have been unable to keep long term friends and flit between groups, are outcast for bad behaviour/compulsive lies and it goes on and on. My heart breaks as I love them so much and they seem so miserable. They have told social services I am abusing them all and need to be arrested/sectioned for their safety. Told school they are a full time carer for me and my other children. Ruined any family trips/holidays that we have been on and had other people constantly comment to me about their bad behaviour and lack of respect towards me. They took themselves into hospital after hearing voices and refused to leave the bed for 5 days . Told the doctors I detest them and they wished me dead ( never ever possibly true) .Eventually the mental health team said they didn't believe them as the story changed every two minutes and depending on who they were talking too. Diagnosis-attention seeking. I had to redo my whole year at uni as the stress over my exam period meant that I was useless for the month.

They have claimed to have cancer twice, then been victimised and horribly bullied due to this and threatened suicide constantly. Lots of risky sexual behaviour like sending underage naked pics of themselves while a sibling was in bed next to them.

They lie horrifically to immediate family members knowing that I will find out within hours and have to go through damage control. And my partner is as soft as jelly and when I raise an issue, says that we don't know the entire story and need to speak to our now 19 year old child to find out the truth. They will say that the family member is lying and he will believe it totally. I finally got them an appointment with mental health and told them EVERYTHING. Got a diagnosis of emotionally unstable border line personality disorder for our adult child and got sent home. No therapy, but can apply for a 6 week course of CBT with a trainee. They wont engage in it.

My life feels like its in ruins. My best friend of 24 years has just been in touch and my 19 year old has been going around saying they were in a nightclub with them and they were doing hard drugs and were embarrassingly drunk at 4am. Not true, I know she was at home watching love island. Everybody has been very tolerant over the years but now these rumours could very seriously affect my friends business and her credibility within her field. I am literally at my wits end with this shit. Its getting to where I have bursts of pure rage over the friends and opportunities that my child and their illness have caused me. Why cant they just NOT LIE?! We have been told time and time again its attention seeking behaviour (for attnetion from other people, not just us) but I can't take it anymore. They can not hold down a job for more than 6 weeks and lurch from disaster to disaster.

I am fed up it. My life is a constant tense wait for the next massive drama they bring home, the next fight I have with my partner and my own mental health is in absolute shreds. I don't know what to do. But my instinct is to get our little rental property empty and send my partner and our adult child to live there to give my younger kids some peace and respite from this non stop shit storm. My partner and adult child will say I am out of order and abandoning my parental responsibilities. WTF do I do? This is destroying us all.

So, AIBU to send them to live apart from us for a while. Has anybody ever experienced anything like this?Any advice at all as I am at breaking point.

I watched the silent minority documentary and couldn't believe it was in the 80s , not all that long ago, still a long long way to go.

I feel I need to address both Katie and Chirpy. I accept what you are both saying, I do. I even have some family history to draw upon believe it or not. However, and with respect, the 'issues' are much, much more widespread today than any previous generation.

Again, I have personal experience of this. I am regularly in the company of 15 women in their early 20s, 7 of whom are on anti anxiety medication. I am not exaggerating, honestly. The others, I don't know, but SEVEN out of 15 are on medication for anxiety. None are older than 23.

How could this not indicate that there is a serious problem within this generation? It eclipses any previous generation. Regardless if it was unspoken about or undiagnosed or un-whatever. There is more of it about. That's fact. The question is why? I have my opinions, you have yours also, I'm sure.

I just couldn't bow out of this thread before making it clear that your argument doesn't wash with me. It's deeper. There is a major weakness in this generation and that's my honest to God opinion, like it or lump it. And I believe it's down to parenting and society and social media and and and...

But back to what rattled my cage, the whole concept of gender neutral, pangender, genderfluid, genderqueer, what the actual fuck?! OK, I really better stop. This is not the thread. Sorry, OP, I'm really going now!

Sorry I meant to write 'there were residents there who were born there'

I know someone who's just finishing a year being treated for BPD* at The Retreat in York - funded by the NHS. You absolutely have to engage with the programme though - your DD's current behaviour would see her very quickly given a Time Out & if she didn't get it together she'd be made to leave.

I'd go to your local CAB & contact MIND to see what they advise. Your DD clearly needs a high level of support that you are - perfectly reasonably&understandably - unable to provide. She's not being provided with the treatment she needs to keep safe. None of this is your fault - CAMHS really dropped the ball on this one; & tbqh lots of parents would have thrown out a child who was behaving like this, MH problems or no, some time ago.

Unfortunately MH services are so stretched that often help is only given to those who shout the loudest. So the ones constantly shipping up in A&E/stopping traffic by walking on the motorway (or making it look like they're going to)/generally making a nuisance of themselves to people beyond their friends & family are the ones who'll be able to access the most resources the fastest. Because they need them to stop doing that...

Go to your GP & talk to them because this is impacting on your wellbeing too. Put pressure on them to help you find & access services for your DD.

Given her behaviour when she was younger, I suppose there's a chance your DD might "try to behave" if offered IP treatment (because it represents being cared for/about by others)?

Sorry, so tired I literally keep falling asleep while I try to write. Probably a sign to shut up.

Really REALLY hope that things improve for all of you soon OP

*Isn't Complex PTSD a separate disorder but with similar presentation & PTSD frequently co-morbid with BPD? Unless I'm totally misinterpreting this abstract (am so exhausted that's entirely possible)/something more recent has come out: Distinguishing PTSD, Complex PTSD, and Borderline Personality Disorder: A latent class analysis

TheFirstMrsDV I was merely pointing out that the when Complex PTSD was first proposed it was as an alternative to BPD. Personally I find all these disgnoses bonkers and really we should just treat people as individuals. No offence was meant.

Peggy He also was the first person to point out that our early relationships are absolutely formative. I think there will be ways to abuse and twist any new finding. I know that the Bowlby centre now absolutely is keyed into the effects of abusive parenting.

I am not offended chirpy I was just a bit confused.

I'm no Psychologist but I have experience of C-PTSD caused by long-term emotional abuse from childhood and although some of the symptoms of BPD overlap, the two ARE separate, IMHO. Whether you can suffer from BPD without C-PTSD, I don't know, but you can certainly suffer from C-PTSD without BPD and without any of the behaviours exhibited by the OP's DC, @chirpyburpycheapsheep.

Ah, x post with several pps ❤️

ImperfectPirouette to paraphrase an eminent trauma therapist "the DSM was invented as a convenient way to classify behaviours under neat labels. Now we believe all these things actually exist"

As I said above, I was simply pointing out the aetiology of the term Complex PTSD. I don't invest too much in my various diagnoses. I am me and am glad I have a treatment team that talk to me and not any one of my 'diagnoses'.

Hi OP, reads a lot like my sister. Was going to suggest borderline personality disorder but can see you've already had the diagnosis. My sister has been on various antidepressants and also developed an alcohol addiction as she used alcohol to cope which exasperated her behaviour. We would regularly have to collect her from police cells and she would hear voices and have delusions. Also a couple of suicide attempts. Not sure what to suggest but just want to say you aren't alone.

She's 28 now and holds down a job and a mortgage and a pet dog and husband so that's something although I would say her marriage is particularly nice.

Oh and my mum had to kick her out at around 18 I think as her violent behaviour was making the home unsafe for us all

If Complex PTSD and BPD are now seen as different diagnoses then that is fine I am happy to be corrected. As I said above I was simply pointing out that the first psychiatrist to suggest the term CPTSD was proposing it as an alternative to BPD. Most psychiatrists can't agree on many current classifications so I don't think we are going to come to some common consensus!

Does you local NHS trust offer STEPPS for BPD?

It's a group therapy thing for borderlines that's extremely helpful for helping each individual patient recognise and manage their own personal underlying triggers and responses to stressful situations.

It won't work tho until (if and when) your DD is ready to acccept that she is ill, and that her behaviours and emotions are maladaptive, and that she genuinely wants to change and become a mentally healthier and more independent ex-patient. Some never do unfortunately. She might have to hit rock bottom first- and that's never a pretty sight with BPD.

OP I think Innagazing and ImperfectPirouette have made really good points. 💐

I definitely think for all your sakes you need to go back to the GP - or a different GP in your practice - and beg for a proper referral for treatment for BPD for your dd.

I am interested in the lies snowballing and (quite understandably) not being believed but I agree with pps that it does sound as if something extremely traumatic kicked everything off quite suddenly. Was the first big lie that wasn't believed that she was raped? Is there ANY possibility that one of the first "lies" could have been true? 💐

I feel for you.
Take a look at the sites 'out of the fog' and bpd family ( sorry of it's been suggested before)
You'll find the forum full of parents going through similar problems with their EUPD offspring
I'd personally go no contact until in treatment

You say she was raped at 13 by a friend's father, the police did not prosecute, and her peers ridiculed her thinking she had lied about it, and she became an outcast. This is a severe trauma for a child to experience. I would wonder if there had been comments or even touching before the rape, maybe starting when she was 11.

Some children when they are not believed about something big, do begin to lie about everything. It is acting out the pain and trauma. She may be doing this, and may 6 years later be stuck in this pattern.

I suspect she needs specialist help. But if she will not engage in mental health services, then there is nothing that can be done. I know there are therapeutic communities which may be able to help her, but she would have to agree to go there first.

i have diagnoses of BPD and CPTSD, along with major depression and anxiety.

my childhood was horrendous. looking in from the outside though, you would never guess what actually went on.

please don't abandon your daughter. help her get the help she needs. i

it always saddens me when people equate BPD with lies, manipulation and generally being shit. people with BPD have usually suffered trauma, and others would do well to think about this before making offensive remarks.

Agree with others that it sounds like a reaction to trauma. These are classic behaviours for an abused child.

People calling her a "brat" and suggesting her mother kicks her out when she is clearly mentally ill is disgusting.

I am making the suggestion I did, because well adjusted well behaved children do not suddenly change, unless something major happens, or there is an onset of a mental illness. The latter has been ruled out, so I would be inclined to believe the rape, and maybe more, happened.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this OP. I don't have any advice for you but wanted to tell you what my story because your dd sound quite a lot like me when I was a teenager. TBH I don't think I was as bad but I was tormented and made my family's life hell. Looking back, I don't really know why I started acting out but I think the trigger was my grandad passing away when I was 12 years old. I was very, very close to him and he lived with us. I was closer to him that my actual dad. I starting making up things at school, lying to friends and exaggerating things. I had a younger ds and db who I was and am very close to, so I wasn't lying because I was jelous of them per se. I definitely did want attention though. My parents were and are amazing. Obviously I couldn't see it then and I some how got it into my head they hated me. I quickly got labelled the 'bad' sister as my ds was very well behaved. I lost a lot of school friends over the years and they soon caught on to the lies. I never made up abuse or anything too bad about my parents, but I would tell people they hated me and that I was the black sheep. It got worse when I left school for uni. I stayed at uni away from my parents and spun into a world of drink, drugs and the wrong group of friends. Ignored my family for pretty much the whole 4 years I was there. Told people they had kicked me out to get sympathy. Once made up a pregnancy after being dumped by a boyfriend. Somehow managed to pass my exams and get a degree and came back home. By this time I was 21 yrs old, had freedom for the last 4 years and was moving back in with my parents. It was hell. For them and for me. I got worse. They kicked me out, I came back, this went back and forth. I couldn't hold down a job or relationship. Started smoking more and more weed and drinking and just went off the rails. They never gave up in me though. Looking back now, it breaks my heart that I was ever that way with them. So, fast forward to now, I'm 37 years old, have an amazing DH, 3 amazing dc's and an amazing relationship with my family. In fact I live opposite them and see them every day! I don't know how it changed, one day I just woke up and was so sick of being miserable. I just wanted to end it all. I was almost 30, was going nowhere. I hit rock bottom as they say. I moved out, got a decent job, quit drinking and drugs, joined AA and a year later, when I was in a much better place, met my now DH. I just wanted you to know that it can change. You might not see it now but things can get better. All hope is not lost. I'm am so, so grateful my parents never gave up on me, even though I thoroughly deserved it. I will forever be grateful. Everyone is capable of change no matter how bad they seem. I'm not sure if this helps you at all but if there's anything else you want to know, just ask. Sending you massive hugs xx

And no wonder she is a mess now if she had the courage to tell you she was raped and you didn't believe her.

Was she raped though? A horrible thing to say but why is that anymore true than her other accusations.

I have been diagnosed with BPD traits along with psychosis & major depressive disorder.

BPD (borderline personality disorder) is also known as Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. Some BPD patients suffer from post traumatic stress but not me.
The most successful treatment for BPD is DBT (Dialectical Behavioural Therapy) which is hard to get. I've not had it. But your DD won't engage with therapy at present.
How it affects me is that my emotions can fluctuate greatly but I'm on meds for the other conditions so that calms down my emotions.
BPD is not a pleasant problem to have. I rarely if ever lie about stuff so not sure if that's related to your daughters BPD. Also I'm the opposite of attention seeking, but maybe some other sufferers are like this.
I'm afraid I don't have much advice but I don't think you should throw your daughter out without support in place.