AIBU to be ready to just give it all up because of childs lies

[FP239]

I am a mum to 5 beautiful kids. Me eldest was a picture perfect kid until around age 11. Then the lies started right after the transition from juniors to seniors.

They have been unable to keep long term friends and flit between groups, are outcast for bad behaviour/compulsive lies and it goes on and on. My heart breaks as I love them so much and they seem so miserable. They have told social services I am abusing them all and need to be arrested/sectioned for their safety. Told school they are a full time carer for me and my other children. Ruined any family trips/holidays that we have been on and had other people constantly comment to me about their bad behaviour and lack of respect towards me. They took themselves into hospital after hearing voices and refused to leave the bed for 5 days . Told the doctors I detest them and they wished me dead ( never ever possibly true) .Eventually the mental health team said they didn't believe them as the story changed every two minutes and depending on who they were talking too. Diagnosis-attention seeking. I had to redo my whole year at uni as the stress over my exam period meant that I was useless for the month.

They have claimed to have cancer twice, then been victimised and horribly bullied due to this and threatened suicide constantly. Lots of risky sexual behaviour like sending underage naked pics of themselves while a sibling was in bed next to them.

They lie horrifically to immediate family members knowing that I will find out within hours and have to go through damage control. And my partner is as soft as jelly and when I raise an issue, says that we don't know the entire story and need to speak to our now 19 year old child to find out the truth. They will say that the family member is lying and he will believe it totally. I finally got them an appointment with mental health and told them EVERYTHING. Got a diagnosis of emotionally unstable border line personality disorder for our adult child and got sent home. No therapy, but can apply for a 6 week course of CBT with a trainee. They wont engage in it.

My life feels like its in ruins. My best friend of 24 years has just been in touch and my 19 year old has been going around saying they were in a nightclub with them and they were doing hard drugs and were embarrassingly drunk at 4am. Not true, I know she was at home watching love island. Everybody has been very tolerant over the years but now these rumours could very seriously affect my friends business and her credibility within her field. I am literally at my wits end with this shit. Its getting to where I have bursts of pure rage over the friends and opportunities that my child and their illness have caused me. Why cant they just NOT LIE?! We have been told time and time again its attention seeking behaviour (for attnetion from other people, not just us) but I can't take it anymore. They can not hold down a job for more than 6 weeks and lurch from disaster to disaster.

I am fed up it. My life is a constant tense wait for the next massive drama they bring home, the next fight I have with my partner and my own mental health is in absolute shreds. I don't know what to do. But my instinct is to get our little rental property empty and send my partner and our adult child to live there to give my younger kids some peace and respite from this non stop shit storm. My partner and adult child will say I am out of order and abandoning my parental responsibilities. WTF do I do? This is destroying us all.

So, AIBU to send them to live apart from us for a while. Has anybody ever experienced anything like this?Any advice at all as I am at breaking point.

Oh FP you could be writing about my life! Situation slightly different, my eldest 2 DC are not biologically my DH but he has raised them and they are his children in everything but DNA. The child we share is now 23, diagnosed at 13 with ASD, which I now doubt, but that's a whole other story. He has told lie after lie, some of which are just ridiculous, others very serious. I have sought help for him since the age of 3, I just knew there was something not quite weird right in his head. DH, like yours was very laid back, swallowed a lot of bullshit and believed the good all the time. It very nearly cost us our marriage. My eldest both left home relatively early due to his behaviour. I put him into care at 14 for a respite period because I just couldn't handle it all any more. He had at this point been physical with me and at more than 6ft tall, I was at risk. SS were very keen on not taking him into care, until I said that if it was my DH that had been physical, they would be encouraging me to leave him, why do I have to tolerate it because the abuser was my son. He came home after manipulating someone in the care home, and he ended up being assaulted himself. He was excluded from school repeatedly, had few friends, then announces he is gay, I have no issue with this at all, both of us were very laid back with that announcement and have welcomed his partners into our home in exactly the same way as our other DC' s partners.
I had to call police several times because he had been physical, each time he tried to make a complaint against his father, luckily never believed, and still DH saw only the good in him. I ended up having a break down and my DS saw that as an excuse to stand on the top of a bridge, announce he was hearing voices and was 'talked down' by a police officer. He was then taken to hospital where they admitted him to a mental health unit and he panicked, tried to discharge himself and come home. Finally we put our selves first and demanded he went back to hospital, which he did. We did more than a dozen therapy sessions, where again he kept lying. His MHSW phoned me and told me he had been diagnosed with an anti social behaviour disorder, in short he was a sociopath, I looked it up, it should have his photo beside the definition, it is him to a tee. This is dealt with in the community, but largely fails because they dont want help to improve their lives, they think they are just fine.
At that point I refused to house him, he was 19, pressure put on by the local authority but I stood strong, they helped him to find a private let flat, get a deposit together and claim benefits. Initially I cut him off altogether, until my DH had a heart attack and was seriously ill and I felt I should tell him. He then sees that s my accepting him back into the family and I will admit I have fallen for his smooth talk several times but every single time without fail, he has reverted to type. He has conned his grandparents (both sets) out of huge sums of money, burgled my house and stolen my car. Emptied our bank account of every penny, using just eat to feed the entirety of SE London, I could go on....
I now limit my contact with him, I know he was raised with love in a secure home with parents who were very much present, exactly the same as my eldest children. He visits us by appointment only, I don't take phone calls from him after 10pm, I never visit his home and I don't clear up his mess anymore. I have had several bailiffs at my home, and I have given each one his home address, I don't lend him money, I have on occasion bought him food though, just in case he was really honest about having nothing.
For your own sanity and the safety of your other children you have to ask her to leave and mean it. She is now an adult. It's the hardest thing you will ever have to do as a mother, but she is legally no longer your responsibility. You can care remotely, as I do but if you don't you are risking your own mental health, and how good a mother can you be to the others if you are unwell. You also need to kick your DP into touch, some tough talking, and real honesty required. You can signpost your daughter to the relevant services and then you start saying no. MN, will tell you no can be used as a complete sentence. I'm not saying that throwing her out will make your life any easier but it will be less complicated. I don't think my son will ever change, in fact I am sure he won't, but I don't have to be in the middle of it any more.
I will probably get flamed for this, but I really couldn't have taken much more, like you I have several auto immune conditions and my health really was at risk. Feel free to DM me of you need to.

Wooo they did beleieve her. They went to the police.

I cant thank you all enough, even the people that have suggested some "out there" things.....believe me I have thought about doing some pretty unusual things.

CAMHS wouldnt see her in the community , despite her being hospitalised twice. Now CAMHS doesnt deal with 16+ here. And the adult services are VERY overstretched. My son asked for a refereal in November last year and his appointment is Thursday coming. That is why we paid for the private counselling , we knew it would be a wait and we knew it help him as he WANTS help. My daughter doesnt seem to care. I confront her about her lies and it varies. Sometimes she goes "BLAHABLAHBLAH" covers her ears and walks away. Sometimes, when she knows its bad, she will breakdown crying and admit the lie and say she doesn't know why and often doesn't even remember saying it or what triggered it. It seems to be a very poor impulse control and that she doesnt under stand social constructs . She often talks over other people, talks about herself a lot or raises inapropriate topics . Her personal hygiene is terrible at times and she spent three years getting her teeth done with braces only to never bother brushing them now or using the splints so they are becoming pretty grim. But she is a lovely young woman when she is having a good spell. She has a really good sense of humour and has the most beautiful smile. She is a goregous looking girl but throws herselves at wasters and arseholes because "normal" people run a mile from her issues.

I am going to have a good re read of this thread, maybe even try to figure out how to print it off so I can keep it. I am going to follow up with all of the info here. I am going to try my damndest to get her to feel better. Deffo looking into the retreat.

I really can't thank you all enough. I am getting all weepy and actually feel a lot more positive than I have done in a long time. Thank you all

Borderline Personality Disorder is now known as Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. It is not Complex PTSD. A person can have both diagnoses though. You have a diagnosis for your adult child. The treatment of choice is DBT - dialectical behaviour therapy. It is fairly widely available on the NHS and the offer made to you was unacceptable. Your OH has contributed to the situation with her poor boundaries and ineffectual parenting, but that is done now. Do you get support from OH? Sorry for your horrendous situation.

OP, with her brother being AS, has she ever been assessed for autism? It wouldn't be a normal presentation of it but might it account for her frankly terrible social skills I.e. Lying to get people to pay her attention.

Does she know she's lying? If so and she wants to stop then it can be treated like any addiction. But she would have to want to stop. Kicking her out of the house might help with that actually

I don't know a single autistic person who would lie like that

@imperfectpirouette Thank you. i am reading about the treat now and I just have a sudden image of having my daughter get better. Of her having a job, a home and a family. I am actually past being a bit teary eyed and am blubbing big time. Thank you. I have a feeling that information may change our lives. I have always advocated for what is right for my children but I havent had the right information to do that for this problem. But now I do. I had no idea that places like that even existed. Thankyou from the bottom of my heart.

@gallopingass she was perfectly average until 11 when she went to big school. She was suddenly no longer the teachers pet in a little comprehensive but a little fish in a big pond. When she is having a good day she has fine social skills but she is wobbling or spiralling out of control it all goes out the window. I doubt autism is a factor. Plus the autism in our family seems to only affect the males and is genetic.

@Groupie her brother is autistic. She has been doagnosed with EUBPD

Gallopingass ASD was my first thought too to be honest. The lack of self identity and the need to live through drama through lies and to get attention and often need to create things to be seen as interesting or get a need met.

I have worked with several young girls who have a BPD diagnosis who I suspect have ASD underpinning everything if not social communication disorder, however with your DC presentation the assement would need to be someone very clued up on both ASD and girls with BPD.

I do think DBT run by a decent qualified practitioner would benefit your DC regardless of diagnosis.

I know I said I was going but had to see how you are doing. Glad your feeling better. I agree with others Complex PTSD is not the same as BPD. Also my autistic son seems incapable of lying so I'm not sure about autism, but I'm not medically trained. Also you comment about her getting better. I hope you mean improving rating than curing. You may have to accept that she will always have mental health difficulties but that she is able to function as a happier person than she currently is. This will mean grieving for a child that you thought you had and embracing the child you have got.

OP , honestly, I'd ask her to leave. It doesn't sound like she acknowledges her diagnosis and is unwilling to get help. All the love and coddling in world isn't going to change anything. Without professional intervention and a willingness on her part to take some personal responsibilty nothing will change. Maybe tell her that you're willing to support her but from a distance, and if she continues to lie and and damage the family then you'll have to withdraw further. For the sake of your own sanity, and the safety of your partner and children, put distance between you.

Does she acknowledge that the lying ect. Is manipulative, damaging and unfair? If not then all the more reason to ask her to leave. BPD can be a relentless, lengthy slog to learn to cope with and overcome - if she won't engage with services and is unwilling to actively participate in CBT/DBT, you aren't even on the path to things improving. Blind and unwavering support isn't always the best thing.

It does sound like you're making a really good effort with regards to the support groups. If you can find some free/subsidised counselling for yourself, also, then that might be helpful.

Peggy but accepted the police taking no action and didn't seem particularly angry about this. I can't see any more detail on this in the posts (apologies if I've missed it). Surely if they believed her they would be furious with the police, and not now be questioning why from around that time her behaviour was increasingly erratic?

If she was raped, and had the courage to tell her parents and the police then was accused of lying, I am not at all surprised she is in this state. Either way, she's clearly mentally ill. A lot of this thread smacks of victim blaming to me. When this started happening she was a child and it doesn't seem like anybody got her appropriate help (not saying they didn't try hard enough, we don't know). But to effectively say 'oh well, she's an adult now, not your problem, throw her out' when it's pretty obvious something traumatic caused this and she needs support and proper care, I find beyond disgraceful.

Children don't suddenly change their personality and behaviour for no reason. And now it sounds like it has spiralled out of control because she didn't get the help she needed.

Oh sorry! The thread didn't reload past page 2 for me so I missed a lot of information before I posted.

It's interesting to see how many people are saying "they are mentally ill, they need love and support". If this were a child who was suffering with addiction and was causing havoc I think the responses would be very different.

@KYZ1981 its funny you say lack of identity because she really doesnt have any. I have always tried my hardest to broaden their horizons and find new hobbies etc. They have done horseriding, gymnastics, rock climbing etc. She loved it as a kid but turned 11 and since then it is like she has been wiped clean. She "magpies" other peoples identities and mannerisms, even clothes. her wardrobe is full of clothes she has taken from people to lend and never returned. She favours these over new clothes. She doesn't like anything original, its all taken from other people so she is like a chameleon.

@woo She made a disclosure at school aged 13-14 and said she was raped a year or two before. She didn't tell the teacher but a student, but was over heard by an adult. They followed protocol and reported it to both myself, social services and the police . We asked her what she wanted us to do but it was already being investigated. At no point at all did I say that I didn't believe her. She was interviewed, the friends dad was interviewed but there was zero evidence and just the word of a girl that already had a 2 year reputation for telling massive porkies such as having cancer. The CPS couldn't prosecute with that. We moved house and tried to start over, she had therapy but barely turned up. She failed every one of her GCSEs despite us getting tutors and trying her on every tablet the gp suggested. As for the police, What am I supposed to do? I cant force them to go to a trial where my daughter would have been ripped apart on the stand!

And woo, I have tried, and tried and TRIED. She was hospitalised for 5 days at her own insistence and then diagnosed with attention seeking as her symptoms varied so wildly. the psychiatrists and psyhcologists are amazed at how complex and varied her lies are. They actually had started to believe that I was abusing my own kids and had left them for five days to go on a jolly!! NONE OF THAT WAS TRUE!. I have tried and fought. I had to fight my way into the psychs room while she was having a consult to say my piece. When i was finally allowed to sit down in the room with my daughter and the doctor her web fell apart and they realised that I was not the enemy but she really loves to paint me as one. She does love me though, but at her lowest points tries to alienate me as much as she can. But even after EIGHT YEARS I am still here , despite the pain, anger, police trips, missed holidays, upset kids and absolute fucking torment that we have been through as a unit. I have asked, shouted and screamed for help and not got anywhere as she has demonised me .

There definitely isn't a diagnosis of 'attention seeking'.

Sounds like my cousins kid. She finally got a diagnosis of bipolar disorder and other issues. Shes now an inpatient in a psychiatric unit.

It sounds horrendous FP. I feel so sorry for you. It does sound like something extremely traumatic caused this, and somehow you need to get to the bottom of what that was (with the help of professionals) otherwise she won't get better.

You say you never once said you didn't believe her, and I take your point about not being able to influence the police and how she would have fared in court, but does that mean you did believe her? Or do you think the rape was a lie?

It might be, I have no idea. But from your description she's clearly traumatised by something and after so many years it will take a long time to repair. I hope you find a way to help her. I can't imagine how hard it is.

It's interesting OP because reading your initial post I was thinking that the description sounded like PTSD and naturally my thoughts turned to sexual abuse. I was also interested to see that you did not mention the rape allegation in the initial post...is that because your DDs behaviour has made you question whether she was in fact raped as she described ? I'm not an expert in mental illness or disorders but I have worked in child protection and I have dealt with a number of adults who report abuse from childhood. One of the main difficulties is that many of them are damaged by these abusive incidents and frequently present with mental disorders or drugs and alcohol problems. This in turn makes them easy to discredit by a defence team and charges can be difficult to achieve. It's worth noting that just because a suspect is not charged does not mean your daughter was not believed but that the relevant evidential threshold was not met.....it's quite hard to do. In your situation I would approach a SARS ( in London referred to as a Haven) and try and speak to a psychologist ( who work with rape trauma) or see if anyone at the CSE unit could refer you to a specialist working with vulnerable victims. I would draw up a timeline using the key incidents which will help focus your mind as to whether the main behavioural difficulties have happened since the rape allegation. My final comment will seem really brutal but you may need to consider that the abuse may have gone on but the perpetrator may not be the person named but someone closer to home. A useful area for you to read would be in relation to Child Sexual Abuse Accomodation theory which is a theory relating to child sexual abuse victims and their apparent unreliability and see whether it correlates to any of the behaviour that you're experiencing

That sounds utterly exhausting

Sorry OP I've just seen your update re the psychiatric admission. I wonder if she feels angry at you because she perceives that you have not protected her? Not that that is necessarily true of course. Perhaps a course of action would be to start a log of the deceit - in a factual way to evidence the pattern of behaviour. Dates, times, who she disclosed to, the nature of the disclosure and the elements that were untrue. This would give experts an indication of the seriousness of the issue. I feel for you I really do it's like your daughter is locked into this other person and can't find her way out.

I would imagine Reborn is quite content at the idea of problematic people being shut away so they don't have to be challenged to think about them. And indeed that non-gender confroming people kill themselves at a high rate.
Cock: kudos to you for continuing to stand up to their poisonous views. Hope to God they don't have kids who have any issues at all, they would deeply damage them.