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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The thread where we meet to discuss the unfolding Trump administration catastrophe, but end up discussing adoptions from Russia

999 replies

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 12/07/2017 12:56

If we can get our hands free to type from the constant facepalming, we should be able to post on this topic.

Continuation of the previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2968382-The-one-where-Trump-just-cant-stop-being-Trump

OP posts:
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49
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 13/07/2017 20:31

cozie small crumbs of comfort?

Kyle Feldscher
Kyle Feldscher @Kyle_Feldscher
Kid Rock's whole Senate thing yesterday? Probably just a stunt for his new restaurant, @kirkpinhoCDB reports t.co/fMuVd19HGx?amp=1

(Although the first reply to this tweet says "just like trump's bid was promotion for his hotels)

bumbleymummy · 13/07/2017 20:43

I've heard people say they think he is more honest than Clinton too. I'd be interested to hear why as well. He's been caught lying so many times.

Kursk · 13/07/2017 20:45

thedcbrokemybank

The background on the whole Clinton family seems suspect, the private email server scandal. Coupled with the dodgy Clinton foundation.

Trump isn't much better, but none of the issues revolving around him pose the same level of security risk.

Kursk · 13/07/2017 20:47

bumbleymummy

I don't believe he is more honest, there is no such thing as a honest politician!

For me it comes down to the scale and importance of the lies,

BiglyBadgers · 13/07/2017 21:07

Trump isn't much better, but none of the issues revolving around him pose the same level of security risk.

You genuinely believe sending some emails, that have been shown to have caused no actual security problems, from the wrong computer is more of a security risk then a face to face attempt to collude with Russia to influence the election? Really...like really, truely? Shock

And if you do genuinely believe this might want to consider the fact that Trump uses an unsecured phone. Hmm

BiglyBadgers · 13/07/2017 21:10

Oh and Pence used his private email for state business and was actually hacked. But of course this is completely different to when Clinton used her private email for state business, I guess because she didn't actually get hacked or something...oh wait...

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 13/07/2017 21:17

Kursk - a lot of Americans on the liberal side of things think that the Russians have compromising material if not directly on Trump, then certainly on some of his close family and associates (Kushner has already been investigated for money laundering on behalf of the Russians for instance).

If Putin did turn out to have a hold on some of the central people in the Trump administration, would this worry you? Or are you so convinced that they're all above suspicion that you think this question is so hypothetical as to be not worth answering?

I guess I'm honestly baffled as to why Trump supporters seem to care so little about this, because at the same time most of them are deeply patriotic (even if I think the direction their patriotism takes them in is often misguided) - so I can't get my head round why they seem to be totally unfazed by America appearing (to my eyes at any rate) to have a puppet government in place run by the Russians (in much the same way the US themselves used to install puppet governments in central America in the past).

Kursk · 13/07/2017 21:30

Like I said I don't particularly like either of them,

Russia probably has compromising material on Trumps team, I would expect that. It's the job of the FSB to collect material like that. The same way I expect that the CIA has compromising material on Putin and Co.

The same with influencing elections, I expect that more countries than Russia tried to influence the election, and probably the U.K. Election. It's the job of intelligence services to do that.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog · 13/07/2017 21:43

Oh, I can see that trying to influence elections is something that other countries routinely try to do - the USA has a long and inglorious history of doing exactly that in Latin America, there are all sorts of ways monetary donations get syphoned around the place to put money into parties without it being traceable as to where it came from - this has definitely happened in recent British elections.

But that's a whole different ball game from a candidate's son and campaign manager knowingly soliciting information from a foreign government, thus leaving himself wide open to blackmail at a later date. That really isn't business as usual - I'm in my fifties and I have never seen anything like that happen in any country that had a claim to be an open and fair democracy.

I mean, do you honestly believe Putin has kompromat on May, Macron, Merkel, Trudeau, etc. of a sort that could make them change decisions in favour of Russian policy decisions if he chose to threaten to reveal it?

You and I just seem to be looking at two entirely different versions of the world and I'm trying to see how you've come to believe your version (as, presumably, you are trying to see how I've come to mine).

Lweji · 13/07/2017 21:47

For me it comes down to the scale and importance of the lies

So, you don't think lying about profiting from the Presidency is more important than any lies by Hillary?
Or lying about his wealth?
Or about contacts with Russians? And the links between his campaign and Russia?

Do you think telling people they will all have health insurance, but then signing for millions to lose their insurance is not sufficiently important?

Or lying about scientific evidence?

What, comparatively, did Hillary lie about?

Lweji · 13/07/2017 21:51

Coupled with the dodgy Clinton foundation.

Have you read about the dodgy Trump foundations?

They use their various foundations to pay each other, launder money, siphon charity money to profit personally at Trump hotels and Trump golf courses.

They are using their political position now for personal gain. Not even of their foundations. Their own companies.

Kursk · 13/07/2017 21:54

I expect Putin has some kind of material on May, etc. weather it's to the same level I don't know.

The same way I am sure the CIA has similar on Putin, May etc. all that is happening now is that routine dirty politics is being made public.

I guess I have a very cynical view of politics because I don't believe that any government serves in the best interest of the people.

I guess it doesn't bother me or Trump supporters because what is being revealed isn't as bad as I thaught was happening

lionheart · 13/07/2017 21:55

Trump University anyone?

Lweji · 13/07/2017 21:57

I believe he is more trustworthy than Clinton

Also, if people lie about little things, they will lie about big ones.

Trump lies about pretty much everything. Big or small. It's been shown very clearly.

Can you trust him when he says his health plan is great and a couple of weeks later he says it was mean?

Kursk · 13/07/2017 21:57

Lweji No I didn't know about the Trump foundations. But it's not surprising he was bound to be doing something like that

Lweji · 13/07/2017 21:58

I guess it doesn't bother me or Trump supporters because what is being revealed isn't as bad as I thaught was happening

What do you think was happening? What will be your line in the sand?

Lweji · 13/07/2017 21:59

But it's not surprising he was bound to be doing something like that

But, do you think it's OK? None of the Clintons used the foundation for anything like that.

Kursk · 13/07/2017 22:01

As for Hillary for me it was her email server, she had classified documents unsecured. I signed the official secrets act in the U.K. If I had done what she did I would have been charged

Kursk · 13/07/2017 22:05

I don't have a line in the sand the political class will do what they want and there isn't much I can do to change that.

All I can do is look after me and my family and remove myself from society as much as possible

cozietoesie · 13/07/2017 22:07

You must all indulge me in a moment of reminiscence.

When I was young, this guy called Andropov became Leader of Russia. I recall that a very close acquaintance was saying - almost delightedly - 'He likes jazz'.

I was forced to respond that he was also ex-KGB. (For a long time.) KGB.

Reminiscence over. Wink

lionheart · 13/07/2017 22:10

But still you vote?

Kursk · 13/07/2017 22:11

Yes I vote libertarian

Lweji · 13/07/2017 22:15

As for Hillary for me it was her email server, she had classified documents unsecured.

But he wasn't passing on secrets to foreign agencies. As Trump did recently.

Or colluding with foreign agents to win an election.

She also didn't cheat people who trusted her. Say... Trump University.

I don't have a line in the sand the political class will do what they want and there isn't much I can do to change that.

You can vote. You can protest. You can prosecute.

What would it take for you to stop believing in Trump? For you to wish he was out?