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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why my children are like this?

168 replies

Spudthecat · 11/07/2017 19:25

I have 4 children they are so so badly behaved, I can't go anywhere without being humiliated due to their bad behaviour, I will be sat at the bus stop and they will be running around in a circle screaming, or hitting eachother and fighting, I have I repeat myself constantly 5/6 times before they listen to anything I say, I will be walking round the supermarket and same as the bus stop they will be running around screaming, I never see children like this, only mine, it's got to the point that I can't go anywhere as they are always causing a massive scene, I've lost count the amount of times I've had to get off a bus or leave a shop

OP posts:
NotForSale · 12/07/2017 22:39

It sounds tough managing but you will get through. I hugely recommend a book called How to Listen so little kids will talk. It has a section on kids with ADHD plus there's an audible version if you don't have time to sit down with an actual book. It has loads of ideas for managing behaviour without punishments in situations exactly like this and helps you stay close to your kids. X

missymayhemsmum · 12/07/2017 23:34

Gosh, 4 under 7 on your own, I take my hat off to you woman! If you get through the day you are amazing.
a few suggestions, when things change, kids play up. Yours are coping with loads of change, and while you have been pregnant and giving birth they have naturally gone off the rails a bit. Now you need to take back control. They will also be vying for your attention, even negative attention.
Make sure you set out your expectations clearly- what and why. eg I want you all to sit quietly while we wait for the bus. You are not to run around by the road because it's dangerous. Thank them for complying, notice good behaviour, and make sure that good behaviour gets more attention than bad, but that bad gets a consequence. If you have to leave a shop then be furious and there is nothing nice happening for the rest of the day, but if they all behave well you'll go to the park on the way home from the shops. Ask the older ones to help with the younger and be 'good examples' and thank them when they do.
Good luck! They'll come through it and so will you

Isadorabubble · 13/07/2017 00:14

Can you go to your local children's centre and see if they run parenting courses? Sounds like you need some help. And they sound like an age where's they're a bit of a handful especially if you're doing it all in your own. The courses aren't judgemental, they're designed to help parents understand why behaviours occur and how to manage them. A friend of mine went on one and she found it really helpful. Good luck.

Bobbi73 · 13/07/2017 01:44

I can't imagine how you're managing it all alone. I only have two lively boys and I really struggle sometimes. Very few people have any idea what it is like for you, especially with a baby and one with ASD. There is lots of advice on here but one thing that worked for me was sitting down with my eldest and getting him to help me write some house rules ( be kind, help each other, no shouting/ hitting etc.) and talking about what would be appropriate consequences for breaking them. It's not perfect but bringing him in to the process made him feel like we were in this together. It definitely helped. Also, I wouldn't go to the shop with both of them for anything on earth! Online shopping is your friend.
Has the three year old got funding nursery yet? Have you got any one who could take the baby for a couple of hours when he goes to nursery just so you can sit down with a cup of tea in peace. You need to look after yourself.

I hope things get better for you soon. 💐

user1486333358 · 13/07/2017 06:05

Hello OP, sounds like you have your work cut out for you. I have 2 and often feel like mine are the worst in a situation. Waiting for buses and going on buses are tough. They scream and make such a scene. I'm just chipping away at their behaviour and slowly its getting better. I have 4 year old twins. I would recommend watching Supernanny videos on youtube when you have time, it really helps to see how other people deal with children's oppositional, aggressive and mischievous behaviour.

With my girls we have a time out mat and three naughties mean no tv, four naughties mean no game after dinner, five naughties mean no bedtime story. There was a period of ugliness, still is, when they know what they are missing out on. For good behaviour they are praised, hugged and kissed. I also sprinkle the day with story time together, they love stories. I would suggest a chart for you to keep a record of who has how many naughties, even I forget sometimes.

For good behaviour you could have a sticker wall chart which might work best. You definitely have periods of reward in your day and you're probably giving them away for free. I'd think about your day and what they like doing and also think of time when you can do something together. e.g reading a book, getting paper plates and making masks, getting an old box and making it into a rocket, building a duplo castle etc.

Your situation is so tough as you have a new born, tiredness and you're doing it all alone. Hang in there......... I feel like you often.......... Flowers

TooGood2BeFalse · 13/07/2017 07:42

Just another one to say hats off to you OP. I am single with a 5 year old dude with HFA and a one year old. I find the days long, knackering, my face aches by 7 pm from the smiles. I absolutely would be on the floor with another 2 kids (plus 10 weeks old!!jesus!) so although things are hard right now, you are already doing brilliantly just by keeping them all safe and well.

No advice, but some great responses given by others already. Wishing you the best of luck, will be thinking of you Flowers

embo1 · 13/07/2017 07:54

Give them clear guidelines and expectations before you set off, with clear consequences for bad behaviour and follow through with discipline.

corythatwas · 13/07/2017 07:55

It sounds really hard work, but unfortunately I think the best way to move things forward and make them easier in the long run is going to be to put in a bit of extra work now.

There has been good suggestions on how to deal with the eldest in particular and that is probably the best place to start. Think about how to find positive outlets for his energy, like getting him to help in the supermarket. Make him feel he is big and clever and a real help.

Also think about how you can make the cluster feeds about the older children rather than about the baby. Can you make them a special story time: either reading/telling stories yourself or getting the eldest to do it?

Fake confidence. Someone upthread mentioned a manic and jolly Mary Poppins and that sounded like genius to me. Brisk, confident about getting results, providing them with constant action. Of course with a newborn baby and 3 older children, it's all going to be a complete lie, but that doesn't matter. You can practise in front of the mirror.

swingofthings · 13/07/2017 07:56

The best method to avoid bad behaviour is good planning. Not easy when you're knackered but really thexway to go.

Example: trip to supermarket, tell your eldest they are in charge of reading the list and telling the youngest what to get. The youngest gets things take turn to weight the items and out stickers on. Decide who puts items on conveyor belt who puts items in bags who gives money etc... Next time do it the other way around. Tell them in advance that if they all work together they'll have a treat and tell them what it is. Ideally show them that you're taking them with you ready to hand out.

It might not work great the first time but stick to your gun. If one misbehave they don't get the treat. They'll have a big tantrum but it will bed lesson learned and they'll know better next time.

If they do behave make sure you tell them that their help with the shopping made it a much better and easier experience and that you are grateful to have such wonderful helpers.

Stubbornmare · 13/07/2017 10:58

Hugs to you OP.

Your not alone. My DD is a demon lately.

My tip is to keep eye contact when telling them off. Don't shout, but speak firmly. Your in control OP.

They need to know your in control and mean business. Good behaviour gets rewarded with praise, smiles, hugs, kisses.

Bad behaviour gets a firm telling off and explanation of why they can't do that. Sent go their room or return home if out. A few stern looks for good measure. Toys can be taken away but I find this doesn't always work tbh. They find something else to do.

Praise the good behaviour. Everything! Give them opportunities to be good. Like laying the table, tidying, reading, eating nicely, getting their shoes on. Just everything.

HipsterHunter · 13/07/2017 11:12

My god 4 under 7 and one with ASD and on your own - no wonder things are fraught.

I honestly don't have any advice but you have my sympathy xxx

hollyisalovelyname · 13/07/2017 11:21

You are a single mother with four children including a very young baby and one child with ASD. It must be so hard for you.
Does their dad help in any way?
You need a shtload of support, OP.*

FretYeNotAllIsShiny · 13/07/2017 12:12

Four kids is hard work, even with well-behaved kids. Well done for getting through every day. Some unusual things that helped me...

Singing. Old Macdonald, I know an old lady who swallowed a fly, bohemian rhapsody... kids love singing, I'd get them singing as we walked home from school, waiting at bus stops etc.

Kitchen disco, whack music on loud in the kitchen, sing and dance. If you're sneaky you can make tea/ wash up whilst you're doing it.

I spy something that is green... another useful game for bus stop waiting.

Shopping, if you have to take them, make a list. Get them to help you make a list. Tell them they are doing the shopping. "Can you find me the milk with a blue label and a four on it?"

Ourdoors is great, wear the buggers out. On the way home from school is great. I really wouldn't stop taking them out, I find kids are more likely to play up if cooped up inside.

Hands up! Teach them that if you stop and put your hand up, they have to stop and put theirs up. See who is fastest. Once they have all cottoned onto that, you've got a moment of quiet to give instructions or whatever.

Tell them you are a team. Team Spud. Can Team Spud tidy all the toys up before the end of this music playlist? Can Team Spud set the table before Mummy finishes cooking?

I found the more I could make into a game and distract them with that, the less they were inclined to turn to their own methods of attention-seeking (fighting) or amusement (wrecking the place) . It's all about wearing them out, mentally as well as physically. And praise. It's hard to praise them for anything when they are being demonic but it's much more immediate than a star chart (although a pack of stickers can work wonders for a visible reward on a day out for example). Kids generally want to be good, and being told/shown they are good makes them want to be good.

It gets easier as they get older, hang in there xx

kastiekastie · 13/07/2017 16:54

I absolutely admire your honesty, such a hard thing to post. If your family are telling you to smack maybe they only disciplined you in this way which would mean you're out there trying to start from scratch finding a suitable way to discipline. If you have four you've probably got a lot of learned behaviour going on - ie one gets away with it and the others learn it's okay. I would ask the school to help - they should have details of parenting courses (please don't be offended, you sound like a great mum just from the fact that you're willing to admit there's a problem and you need help) but is there one who you think is worse behaved than the others? On glancing through and reading about the cake could you possibly have a child with ADD or ADHD on your hands? Again school and your GP should be able to help and/or signpost if so. As with anything people can jump up and down about 'labels' but being able to label something - if there's anything to label - means it's easier to get help/treatment/funding/support, or whatever. Best of luck with it all x

WellThisIsShit · 17/07/2017 18:33

Ok, so first of all, you need a HUGE hug.

You are doing so well to be getting through each day without collapsing. From my perspective, of not having to be kind to your missing partner... he's abandoned his partner, 3 children and unborn child (now born). He just walked away and the only reason he could collapse and behave like this is that he knew you'd take over. I have a lot of sympathy for mental health illnesses, but not when they are combined with selfishness and nastiness (as one does not excuse or create the other).

He has dumped all his responsibilities and shown he doesn't care at all for his family, the people who he should love and the children especially, who deserve unconditional love and the absolute best parenting each parent can offer.

So he gets to drop it all on you.

And you get to deal with your own grief and heartache, and your children's hurt and confusion, and your pregnancy, and all the practical nightmare of suddenly becoming a single family of four.

You are hurting. Your children are hurting. Add in a child with sn and a new baby then honestly, it's an incredibly hard situation where you and the dc must be at breaking point Flowers

So, first things first, you need help. Does Home start exist on your area? And what can your hv offer? And what about children's services for respite and parenting classes and anything else they can offer due to you having a child classed as disabled?

And, I kinda don't want to ask, as I get the feeling I know the answer, but is there anyone you can ask for help in rl? Family, friends?

I know it probably seems like loads of extra work and battling when you're at your lowest, but you need to start sounding that gong, before you collapse altogether...

And as for the rest, I think there's some great advice here but it needs to be altered to take account of you being tethered to a chair/ sofa/ newborn.

Also, I'd not go for a huge amount of high energy massive changes right now. I'd find a few small changes that make a bit of a difference and that you can really stick too - don't wear you out or set you up for failure or make life harder for yourself at the moment.

You can probably do a much better job of picking those few things but here would be my outside perspective... Id start with the nice stuff. Your family life needs to get rebalanced, and all the discipline and consequences stuff will be super important in that, but don't forget the other side of the see saw... increasing the good stuff.

I'd also start with the stuff that gives you back some immediate positivity as YOU need some gentleness and love just as much as anyone else in the family. If you go down, they all go down, so treat yourself very kindly and gently. Flowers

So here are my suggestions for the first little changes I'd make:

ONE. Find the good in everyday - even if you have to stretch the truth a bit to do so at the beginning!

They're getting so much of their attention fix through negative behaviours, and it will take time to change that, but one way is to start giving positive attention and hopefully some of the dc will like that better than the shouty stuff and you'll be laying the groundwork for tackling the tough behaviour later. So stuff like 'wow look at the way dc1 is walking so sensibly off the bus' or 'wow everyone, did you see the way dc2 put his food down so nicely' etc, tiny things, possibly grabbed and praised just before they go off and do something awful!

TWO. Help make snugly moments for each child and you. Put back the love!

Find tiny pockets of time to connect with each dc, especially the older ones. I know it can't be loads of time, or even completely by themselves. But you need, and they need, to start feeling love for each other again. It's so easy to forget the good stuff when everyday life is so bloody hard and the children are being so, bloody themselves!

So, a squishy snuggle moment every day, or a precious just for them mummy moment close to bedtime, or a super grown up mummy + me doing it together moment ... basically any ways that you can inject love and kindness and appreciation into each day. You need cuddles and love just as much as they do to be honest!

What about using the baby as a prop for bonding with the older ones, so turning the baby away from being a disruptive addition to something you and the other dc can bond over? Or even making things like counting out the peas into a saucepan ready for dinner into a super special grown up kid helping mummy in the way that the babies can't?

Thinking about all of you, is there anyway you can engineer loving kindness all together? Like, one big family squish at the same time each day, before bedtimes, even after lunch to end quiet time (if you can enforce a few mins of quiet time when you're at home), or whenever there's a lull or tempers are getting frayed (but haven't snapped yet).

Maybe a big family squish on the sofa where you all say what you're favourite bit of the day together was... or where everyone says one thing they like about another member of the family? I'm ripping off love bombing type stuff by the way if you look it up online you'll find lots of ideas :)

THREE ignore, breathe, distract.

So many great ways to address the negative behaviour that you can try over time. But short term, you could focus on yourself, and helping you control your feelings and reactions to the onslaught.

Angry shouting or upset doesn't work as an everyday deterrent.

Try to ignore what you can't deal with for the moment. And when you feel yourself losing control, breathe and focus in on yourself, don't focus on the behaviour, on your breathing and on calming yourself down. Reassure yourself: It's ok, it's not forever. You're a good mum. You're biding your time. They're good kids really. Etc etc

And then, just change the subject, distract them and start a game, or look at x, or, so who is hungry?! Races, songs, marching together... basically anything to break them out of the loop they've got themselves into.

Don't feel bad for not addressing the bad behaviour if you just can't cope with it. There's no rule that says we parents have to make a huge deal out of every bit of bad behaviour or naughtiness. Consistency is great, but not at the expense of your sanity and your relationship with your kids. It's ok to ignore, just don't react to it at all, ignore, breathe, distract... and move on.

Final note in this crazy long post! Personally, I don't think these nuclear war stand offs work either. Where the punishments go up and up until you're locked into worse and worse punishments and upset on both sides. And the confrontations where nobody can ever win and it becomes about who dominates who, and who is prepared to push it farthest. Not kind and not helpful.

I agree it's important to carry through your promises, but I think it's more important never to make promises, and punishments, that you can't keep. Don't say punishments when angry as you'll end up with these big punishments you feel you have to stick to. Punishments that end up punishing you too!

Good luck, I know it's so hard for you right now, and I know it's not fair, but you're so tough to even be surviving, let alone trying to find ways to make it better x

mamabeak · 21/07/2017 20:01

Spudcat
If eldest has ASD then these behaviours are not abnormal for her (or maybe, explicable) however continuing like this is not in her benefit.

Behaviour/consequence may not work with her (as in she might not make the connect) but a program like ALERT (How Does My Engine Run) might work better. You need to google that but also speak to Community Paed and/or CAMHS or Health Visitor to ask for input in a discipline/behaviour management strategy that will work for her (and other kids).
For a program like ALERT there would be Occupational Therapy input. A sensory assessment profiling would be no bad thing for you to ask OT to carry out (via specialist).
Has your daughter been assessed by SALT (Speech Therapist) for communication challenges and what input have they advocated; if none again ask for a referral or rereferral and speak about picture cards and social stories (see below).
Firstly it is about controlling sensory overload for your eldest, so perhaps,

  1. if/when safe, ear defenders/headphones and maybe a cheap MP3 player with calming music: Vivaldi, Mozart;

  2. if/when safe, sunglasses if she is light sensitive;

  3. ensuring her blood sugar is not spiking or troughing as that will influence behaviour;

  4. ensuring you are not overloading verbal instructions - sometimes picture cards work (they have a special name I currently forget but involve simple diagrams indicating, sitting/hand holding/toilet/walking) and reinforcing it with "I need to see Good Listening/Good Walking etc"; google autism picture cards; also go to NAS (National Autistic Society website for help/local resources);

  5. Social Stories for everyday events ..."When we go to school ...and a page for each one simple part of the process..step by step..." "At the bus stop"... speak to the Health Care Specialist or ASN teacher about Social Stories that show the kind of behaviour you expect from your child (Social Stories use the child's photo usually):

  6. Reinforce these simple step by step instructions in the carrying out and praise "good waiting" "good hand holding" "good sitting"; give only one clear, positive instruction at a time, even if you use words like first, do not proceed to a further instruction immediately;

  7. Do not insist on your child looking at you when you are communicating - it can be too hard and impair the intake of verbal instructions if she also has to focus on looking at you;

  8. Do not take your oldest shopping if you an avoid it - supermarkets are hell for those of us on the spectrum...loud, echo=y, big, bright, announcements, distractions, people behaving erratically, items moved week in/out; or perhaps, when you can, take her but just her having prepared her via a social story and any sensory aides to help;

  9. the 3 y o is only just on the cusp of learning acceptable behaviours/being able to understand behaviour/consequences but probably too young for anything that is not immediate; the five year old might manage a star chart which breaks the day up and/or rewards specific tasks/activities, but the reward needs to be immediate;

  10. communicate to the 3 and 5 year old the behaviour you want/expect, as with to the six year old: short, clear step by step instructions, that say what you want to see "I am looking for good standing at the bus stop, good waiting" and explain what good waiting is (not what it is not - negative instructions are useless), and perhaps a focus on counting red cars or how many buses...(you need to entertain them)...you reward the positive (but not with sweets)- praise is usually enough (or ten minutes extra bedtime story for a full good day).

  11. spend time each day, individually, with each child even if it is just 10 minutes; one on one time doing something they enjoy (play doh, read a story, play with duplo, splashing in a paddling pool/water play); NB dd (6) may also benefit from sensory input (sand/water play/spinning/bouncing/swinging/singing to calm her and help her focus; talking books work well for some children or sometimes something to chew on ... a chewie/chewellery, and some like pressure vests/weighted waistcoats, in discussion w OT);

  12. personally I would have the 3 year old in reins (or a Little Life backpack with harness) if not in a buggy when on busy streets, and possibly the 5 year old too in a backpack/reins; for your daughter (my son needed a harness/reins till he was 8 on some occasions as he was a bolter...endangering himself) a back pack, perhaps with comfort items in them and something to weight it a little (juice box or two or small bean bag - speak to OT);

  13. make sure you have something to entertain children if (eg) at the doctors or waiting anywhere - books, stacking cups...age approp toys that are easy to keep track off/collect up: keep a bag of "going out" toys ready to pick up as you leave the house;

  14. limit screen time (do reasearch on the age appropriate limits and also how children on the spectrum can respond to screen time).

It could be that, if you have one child on the spectrum, your other children may have some coordination issues (even if your daughter does not), hypotonia, some sensory issues, some communication and/or processing issues (children on spectrum or with ADHD can blank out to shouting more than the average child - remember too body language is confusing for them, and esp. facial expressions or even verbal tone); your other children may also, if not on the spectrum, have ADHD. Of course it is possible they may not but there are genetic aspects to ASD/ADHD and a high rate of co-morbidity, or for both to run in a family.

Lastly it is to be remembered that all behaviour is communication and with a child who is struggling (on the spectrum) what may appear naughty or out of control is actually them saying "I am overwhelmed" "I cannot manage". And, in reference to eg waistcoats or pressure vests or body-hug vests, sometimes the physical pressure or input of a hug/holding them can rebalance or refocus the child (or some ASD children in stressful situations can find touch even less tolerable then).

mamabeak · 21/07/2017 20:04

@kastiekastie - I have not found the message yet that mentioned Mental Illness but if the op has a child with ASD, it might well be that the absent parent is misdiagnosed ASD or ADHD in addition to other dx.

ScissorBow · 21/07/2017 22:41

You've been offered TAC and this is the sort of thing it will help with. It's not punitive, it's not judgemental it's helpful, genuinely. I put myself forward for parenting courses because of my DD's behaviour. She behaves amazingly now. So proud of her.

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