To wonder why my children are like this?

[Spudthecat]

I have 4 children they are so so badly behaved, I can't go anywhere without being humiliated due to their bad behaviour, I will be sat at the bus stop and they will be running around in a circle screaming, or hitting eachother and fighting, I have I repeat myself constantly 5/6 times before they listen to anything I say, I will be walking round the supermarket and same as the bus stop they will be running around screaming, I never see children like this, only mine, it's got to the point that I can't go anywhere as they are always causing a massive scene, I've lost count the amount of times I've had to get off a bus or leave a shop

Yes I agree you can not leave them to get on with it while you bath the baby, not if they can get into the kitchen. Everybody with you and make sure they can only get into rooms you want them in. Out and about, I know this sounds harsh but a good sturdy double buggy was my friend for a long time - one which can't be tipped over - for the youngest two and wrist strap for the 5 yr old around a road until you're sure of him.

Three year olds can be tough, and most parents I have come across complain about their five year old's behavior, and you have both at the same time. Add in a 6 year old with ASD, and a 10 week old and I think you need to give yourself a break on the 'I'm a terrible parent' front, as should your family.

many say that shouting is a sign of losing control, i agree with this. one of my professors once said in class "i'll never shout because i am the teacher and i am in control. my children know this. however you should be very afraid of me when i whisper because that is when i am really in control and am thinking super hard. that is when the discipline comes. when i whisper to my children after they've done something bad, it is the most afraid they can be".
this was one of the best pieces of advice ever!!

discipline and follow through. when parents follow through with discipline it works. (obv in beginning there can be backlash from kids, but see it through!)

it probably will be hard so get support. maybe watch some supernanny episodes?

routine, routine, routine.

And 1:1 time with each of them (somehow!). Urinating and flooding the kitchen sound like classic attention seeking strategies, because you have to deal with them and then they get your attenttion

I've noticed that dcs 'fill the space'
So if you're passive and reactive, they will act up to get your attention and stimulate themselves.
It's so hard for you to do at the moment with a tiny one, but you need to take control of the space and 'airtime' Model yourself on a manic and jolly Mary Poppins and they won't have space to misbehave.
So: breakfast time looks/ sounds like this-
6yo- I want you to get the milk out. 4yo here are the cups, put them on the table 3yo can you show me the blue cup. Hands up who wants orange juice. Stay at table while I warm up babies milk. Great sharing dc2 Shall we go to park or swings before the supermarket today? Hands up who wants weetabix. Oo did you see that robin?

It's ridiculous but if you persevere it becomes easier and it works.

It sounds to me as though they are competing for attention.

Thanks for the comments and advice I do appreciate it and will take it on board. I had them in a relationship but at the end of last year my ex had a mental break down and ended things, refused absolutely all contact with me and the children, I tried for ages but he would not speak to me at all, he hasn't seen them since January and has never seen the baby, they don't have any 1:1 time with me as I don't have any one who can have them, yes dd is probably attention seeking since the new baby she has been doing things like running into the road, trying to fall down the stairs, throwing herself off the trampoline, they take advantage of the fact that I am stuck a lot of the time on the sofa cluster feeding the baby so they can get up to what they like

I know it doesn't feel like this but perhaps your DD weeing on the floor will get you more help from HV / children's centre. Really hope this doesn't sound insensitive. I managed to get on the parenting course and some help from children's centre initially because of toilet training issues in addition to behaviour. Not sure I am phrasing this right - I mean if you speak to the HV about that too it may make you more likely to be offered the classes or support ifswim.

You need clear boundaries and consequences.

I have three children, one with ASD and complex needs. You need to parent your autistic child differently. I parent my asd child therapeutically and use visuals. My ASD child has clear consequences for negative behaviour just like siblings do, but the approach is different.

I use a now and then strategy with mine. E.g. now we are eating dinner at the table then.you can play for 30 mins before bath and set a timer . Asd child now dinner then play showing visuals of what is happening now and next. Using a big sand timer and putting visual in.a finished box once activity is over.

You need to praise positive behaviour and take away stuff when behaviour is not as you would like.

Natural.consequences are also a good teacher. E.g. DD 2 refused to wear a coat today ( I had it my bag) she got wet. DD1 and DD2 were squabbling the other day their I pad went down the stairs as one dropped it from.her hands. The screen.is cracked a little. They will both paying half each from.their pocket money for the repair and the I pad was taken.away for two days.

Do you follow through op?

All councils offer some great free parenting courses (and sometimes offer to help with childcare for young children so you can attend). Just give them a call and ask.
Worth mentioning is that you are a role model for your children's behaviour ie if you yell at them, than they will think it's ok to communicate with others by yelling at them. Not a criticism as I'm guilty of that - just something you learn on the free parenting courses.

Oh OP that sounds bloody hard and well done for surviving thus far! I also agree on the importance of following through with consequences. Sometimes I will engineer a situation to assert authority e.g. If we've been at soft play and I'm ready to go home anyway, I can use the threat of going home as a warning for bad behaviour and then gladly follow through with this, as I'm ready to leave anyway!

The key is to - as far as possible - make consequences that you are happy to follow through and ideally do not have a negative effect on you. E.g. Do they have a favourite cup or plate they like to use? Take it away for a day. Also I can understand you may not wish to withdraw screen time as that negatively impacts on you but if your DS is naughty then the consequence is that your DD gets to choose what TV programme they watch. And if the two of them are arguing over a toy, toy gets removed instantly. I do hope things begin to improve for you.

Hi op, I have an asd child who is very restricted with where we can take him and what we can expect of him behaviour wise. We have had to alter our lives entirely around him because no amount of visuals, social stories, timers make one jot of a difference to him. Both his (sn) school and I manage his behaviour by making the world fit him in the way he wants it to, as far as is possible. Sorry if that's depressing but I just wanted to say that no amount of parenting skills or consequences help my son, only limiting what is expected of him.

You honestly sound like you are doing so well, it must be fucking exhausting. When I had dc3 there were times I thought I would fall over with exhaustion and there were two of us attempting to parent 3 kids. You are single handedly coping with 4 and all very young in age.

My advice would be to do less going out with your kids (certainly not the bus trips to go shopping) and just concentrate on getting through this early baby bit and through to the part where you start to be able to enjoy life again. It will happen. Please, please don't be hard on yourself, you will look back at this time and marvel at how you found the strength to get through and realise what an amazing parent you are.

Read 21 days to a happier family - Coulson. I'm working my way through it when I have the energy as was feeling exactly like you. Comforting read and good tips. Need to implement them now

Sounds like you are having a really tough time. 4 children, close in age and you are on your own - that's hard. The idea about seeking some help from the health visitor seems a good one and I wonder if your eldest child's school could offer some support ?

I second less going out shopping and more taking them all to a park. All children need outdoor time. Involve them all and give individual child your time on a one to one basis. Make staying at home fun and have a film matinee, all on sofa with duvet and treats. Can a neighbour or family member help you. Four little ones are hard work.

I would send the older kids off together to find easy items like biscuits. Talk to them as this is a vital task that's very grown up and they'll be pleased and have something to so.

On the way to places play counting games or tell stories. Really shouting is a loss on control and joining in with the chaos, also they may be so used to it they hardly register it.

At home use time out in emergencies and find small things to do. Time out splits the team up and gets you a bit of quiet to calm down. never make a promise you can't keep. kids are very sharp and they know when you're fibbing.

exotic punishments don't work and will ruin your relationship.

Shops over stimulate children and people are paid to put goodies in the right spot so kids scream for them. Exhaust your kids in the countryside and you'll like them more.

I think parenting classes

I have two and there were times it was hard. I don't know how you ended up with 4 without feeling on top of the discipline. Sorry.

Spudthecat love, I am so sorry to read that with your youngest being only ten weeks old, you have found yourself a single mum. I ended up as a single mum very suddenly when my two were 6 months old and 21 months old, and I was sooo exhausted, I sometimes didn't know the time of day. Luckily I had an amazing neighbour, (very senior to me in years) and quite a disciplinarian, but fair. She helped me so much, and although at first I really didn't like her ways, I did, actually - quite shortly, see that her ways had a very positive effect, so that instead of the ruccus, - the children - (as they grew older) began to actually appear to be more happy, living with a disciplined plan. this did mean being brave enough to ask for help from friends and family (and my amazing neighbour) - you just can't do it all on your own with four, and with a tiny 10 week old - people DO love to help, so ask for some help and get a breather now and then. Good luck.

You all sound stressed, which is probably the actual problem.

Punishment actually only creates kids who "play the game" of behaving/ get good at being sneaky and blaming others. Natural consequences and incentives work best. Marble jar is always a good one - one each and one communal, reward agreed in advance.

What would be ideal would be if you could step back and have a break and come to the situation calmer - it sounds as though you are run into the ground atm and reacting rather than actively parenting, which is totally understandable. Post partum hormones and sleep deprivation probably aren't helping.

I hope you can get some help via home start or a relative, to help you come to the situation a bit better rested and calmer.

I feel for you op however as others have said speak to health visitor about parenting courses. Obviously your dd will need a different approach. Having clear consequences to unacceptable behaviour that followed through is key. (the other day my dd was being silly at bedtime so I said if you are silly getting into pjs then no story, behaviour continued so no story - next day good as gold). Also if father has been involved until only relatively recently this will have an effect on their behaviour because they lack the skills at this age to express their feelings appropriately

Children are like dogs. They need a long walk every day.

I have four children too, so I do sympathise. The first thing you need to do is just accept that you have all had a hard time and there were always going to be bumps to smooth out while you all adjust. This isn't your fault but you can find a way out of it.
When I went out with all four at that stage, I allowed each one to take one toy and one small book in a backpack, long with a snack and a drink. It helped to distract them and when they were distracted they couldn't fight. I did probably overdo the enthusiastic chatting about whatever we saw from the bus, but it worked(just never take the one special toy which would cause huge problems if lost, obviously, because it will definitely get lost!).
Online shopping is great, but you need to go out for other things so obviously you have to be able to take them with you. I think it might make a difference if going on the bus meant some fun for them- visits to someone they like, or an outing to the park, that kind of thing. Shopping is deathly dull for a lot of kids and if they don't look forward to what they are going to do they will start out in the wrong mood for good behaviour.
I had one who was a nightmare for a while and did a lot of the things you describe. It really helped for me to carve out a little time each day for us to do something together and chat as we "worked" at our sewing or cooking or whatever. I was worried about rewarding bad behaviour to start with, but what really happened was it relieved some of the anxiety about a new baby and other changes. Each of my kids now has a "thing" that only they do with me. One sews, one does origami, one walks the dog with me and one likes it when we paint together.
You've been left in a very difficult situation and you might need help to sort it out, but try to think of it as being no different to needing to find a gas fitter to set up your central heating. Nobody knows everything, and finding the best advice is a sign of strength.

I only have the one but I would highly recommend the marble jar. Ignore when they fuss about having one taken out & maybe say they don't want to do it anymore! I also make a point of telling DD how much nicer the house feels when we are not constantly arguing & battling to get the smallest thing done. I would also agree about the importance of routines.

Right I don't want this to sound like a judgement as I'm just trying to help so things that have worked for me are :
Positive praise of good behaviour that i want and ignoring the bad.
Parenting course in family action website.
123 magic as other posters have said (there's a good book on this on Amazon )
Taking away things they really want like tablets etc
Consequences that make them responsible for their own actions, "if you don't put your coat on you'll be cold" "if you don't get ready for school/dressed you'll be late and get into trouble with the teacher "
Correcting behaviour immediately like don't be rude to mummy say please etc.
Don't make punishment too harsh or too long e.g grounding a kid for a week for being rude make it short and immediate and be prepared to do what you say no matter what as if they see you're not serious you'll fail so be prepared to carry punishment out.
That's all I can think of for now hth

www.ahaparenting.com
This is a resource site/blog by Dr Laura Markham. It goes through why kids act out and how you can make yourself heard with them without shouting. There is a facebook page as well. Would recommend - it's helped me. Good luck.