To wonder why my children are like this?

[Spudthecat]

I have 4 children they are so so badly behaved, I can't go anywhere without being humiliated due to their bad behaviour, I will be sat at the bus stop and they will be running around in a circle screaming, or hitting eachother and fighting, I have I repeat myself constantly 5/6 times before they listen to anything I say, I will be walking round the supermarket and same as the bus stop they will be running around screaming, I never see children like this, only mine, it's got to the point that I can't go anywhere as they are always causing a massive scene, I've lost count the amount of times I've had to get off a bus or leave a shop

I'm no parenting expert and I can imagine it must be very hard with 4 young children. I've only got two and it's hard.

In my opinion shouting and smacking only show the children you've lost control. Which is ineffective. You might be able to temporarily frighten them into submission by shouting and smacking but it's no long term solution.

I think rewards and consequences are most effective.

If I were you I'd probably try to avoid situations where you're likely to get frazzled such as the big supermarket shop, can you order online?

Examples of consequences could be loss of tv time, removal of favourite toy, if they're fighting over something take it away, time out, sad face on a sticker chart. Consequences should be immediate but not drag out for days, and you HAVE to mean it.

Reward could be a trip to the park, a happy face on sticker chart, a DVD and popcorn afternoon, something simple and inexpensive.

I'd also chase up on parenting classes.

Mammylamb haven't actually seen any judging tbh. This is the nicest aibu thread I've seen in a while. People are just being honest and the OP wants help.

Poor you!

I only have the one DD and half the reason she is an only is because I have spent most of her life exhausted. She is very strong-willed and very probably ADHD, has never required much sleep and has vast stores of energy.

We have had a lot of professional help over the years and while it hasn't been 100% successful, it's given me some good ideas to try and the psychologists have been amazing in making me feel less of a crap parent. I have spent many an hour crying my eyes out over my inability to control my child.

1,2,3 Magic is well worth a read.

Find your child's currency and exploit it ruthlessly. For a while I had a lucky dip bag - used to go to Poundland and buy multipacks of things, then wrap them up in xmas paper and if DD could behave from the school gate until we got home then she could pick a prize from the bag. After a consistent week, we moved to getting a star each day and a slightly better prize for a whole week of stars and so on. Eventually she got used to being better behaved.

She's now 8 and we operate a pocket money system where she can earn so much per day and then gets whatever she hasn't lost at the end of the week. She also loses tablet and TV use for serious bad behaviour.

Routines really help, firm boundaries really help and I have found that the older DD gets the easier she gets - the worst ages were 18 months, 3 and 6.

People who are lucky enough to have compliant children will find it very hard to appreciate how difficult it is to discipline a child who has zero interest in pleasing you, who is hard to bribe and for who consequences hold no fear. The psychologists told me to ignore anyone who tutted, gave me 'that look' or said things, but it's not easy.

It's also very much the case that you end up using your energy on the worst bits - if I told DD off for everything she does that I don't like, then I would just be the endlessly snarky mother. I pick my battles and try to praise the good and ignore as much of the bad as I can.

I really, really feel for you, and I am so ashamed of my pre-child self who looked at parents and smugly assured myself that 'my child will never be allowed to behave like that'.

Ok mammylamb I take that back, Suzy2b wtf does that comment add to the conversation. Either offer a way to help the OP or piss off

Bra I'm NOT judging, I've done my share of shouting but it doesn't work and only makes me more stressed.

Children only show the behaviours that you allow them to get away with. You need to be firm. Take away toys/sanctions. You need to mean it and be consistent. They will change. You need to be cruel to be kind. [ not really cruel but just show them whos boss]

I was in the same position as the OP for a long time as a single parent of five. We were extremely poor (their dad didn't pay maintenance). There was nothing to withold, we couldn't afford treats, outings, gadgets, all those things that people use as sanctions against bad behaviour.

If it helps, OP, my lot grew up just fine, having been evil little sods for a lot of their growing up years (two of them are frigging accountants now...). Just do your best and try to make sure that you get some 'time out' for yourself, to keep calm.

Treats dont need to be tangible rewards. They can be to go to the park, to play a game to do something they don't normally do. Sanctions can be to sit on a chair for a certain time, to go to their room , to not go out to play. No money involved.

Smacking and shouting are totally ineffective. You need boundaries, routines, praise, fair discipline, you probably need to pull the ring leader in to order particularly but it needs to be done positively

Ok so you know there should have been a punishment over the cake right? She helps you clean it up. She does little chores helping mummy to help earn the money to replace it. Her fave toy is being removed.

Honestly not disciplining is easier in the moment, but it makes your life a million times harder in the long run. You think it's bad now? Wait a few years. Honestly you need to start tackling every bad behavuour. Kids need boundaries, they need consequences that's how they learn.

I say this partly as a teacher. I dont know where i would be without having some sanctions. 27 children run a mock.

I only have 2 children but found this book so very helpful www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1848123094/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1499801416&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=how+to+talk+so+kids+will+listen+and+listen+so+kids+will+talk&dpPl=1&dpID=51a8BYA2aXL&ref=plSrch&tag=mumsnetforum-21 Lots of techniques to try & its quick to read & refer back to, with cartoon-strip type scenarios illustrating the key points as well as text. I hope you find something that will help you improve things OP

Also give good quality attention.

Buy some top parenting books from amazon. There's s huge choice. It would be much better then a parenting course.

In a classroom full of kids [ and i know it is different] children enjoy rewards like sitting next to their friend, being able to choose a fun activity after a task etc.

Why was there no punishment over the cake?
It can be quite unsettling for children to be able to do what they want and have no boundaries in place, it can mean they don't feel 'safe'.

Have you never had consequences for bad behaviour? If not, it's probably going to take a while to enforce and they may go worse before they go better as they will naturally push and test the boundaries, they will want to see what you will do and whether you will follow through with the consequences.

Maybe pick one thing at a time, so going out. Before you leave each time tell them what you want them to DO (rather than what you want them not to do), so stay by the pram/hold hands/stop straight away when told (whatever you want the behaviour to be). Get them to repeat it to you so you know they've understood.
Explain what will happen if they don't do it. (Decide on a consequence you are able to follow through with-maybe wear a wrist strap if they run off/don't listen when asked). I would try and make the consequence as immediate as possible so if out and about, it's a bit pointless saying no telly later.

Thank them/praise them for behaving nicely.
Be calm, don't shout. If they don't do what you've asked tell them calmly that they chose not to do ...... so ....... is going to happen. Then do it.

You might have to be really strict at first, no second chances.

Natural consequences are good. So with the cake - they should clear up the mess and use their pocket money to cover its cost. Or do jobs to earn the cash to cover the cake cost

Children with ASD can particularly thrive on sound routines and boundaries.

All good advice OP. My kids are 7, 4 and 4, and really acting up lately. They need the summer holidays, truth be told. Especially my 7yr old. He's only just turned 7, but over the past few weeks he's changed from a lovely gently little boy to a child who makes Horrid Henry look angelic. DD has always tried my patience and will agree to my little chats about required behavioural standards when we are out because she knows that's what I want to hear, yet carries on as she wishes because she wants to. DS2 has hearing issues so tends to follow the lead of the other two; ends up getting into trouble through no fault of their own. I will not reward 'good' behaviour because I expect good behaviour and I believe they see it as conditional and start to expect something to be in it for them. That's not how life works. So when they do ask if they will get pocket money for complying with a request, I explain that I believe they should do because they want to; hoping to teach them to recognise the intrinsic value rather than looking for the extrinsic reward. I do threaten consequences, and this very weekend I followed through with one and left DS1 and DD at home with DH while myself and DS2 went to their godmother's daughters birthday party. They've been running rings round me with breakfasts; not eating it before it's time to leave for school and then whining they're hungry later for a biscuit. So this morning, I held my ground. We have a timer in the mornings so as soon as that went off to finish breakfast I took it away and moved them on to the next task. The DTS have whined at various moments during the day today but been reminded that they're hungry because they made a poor decision this morning to mess around rather than eat their breakfast on time. They were offered a banana or satsuma but nothing else. I didn't give them anything extra at lunch or dinner to make up for it, and when they said they were still hungry after eating everything on their plates, I reminded them that I gave them enough food at each mealtime but they were hungry because they didn't eat their breakfast when it was available. Fingers crossed this may have sunk in. I have, in the past, been known to be driving to an activity and turned around to go home as a result of their behaviour. I will do that again. If it's something they're all going to be doing, if their current behaviour doesn't improve, then I will be doing this again. It does work (although behaviour has slipped lately). I will also do this if it is only one child acting up, in the hope that their siblings being upset with them too may help them see sense.
Lately I've found I do nothing but scream and shout. I'm not proud of it and I know it doesn't work; it's ineffective and only serves to harden their hearts against you. I've felt out of control and my emotions are all over the place as a result. I lost my shit big time with DS1 last week who seems to have developed a habit of tantrumming like a 2yr old (particularly galling because he didn't have that much of a difficult time at 2). I could feel it happening with DD last night as the rage bubbled to the surface so I took myself outside for a time out.
You're not alone OP, and you're doing a great job. 4 kids is a lot of work. And you're going it alone. If you're anything like me, you're exhausted and wrung out; hyper sensitive to all of it now and feeling judged by others. But I know I'm the worst judge of myself and tear strips off myself. Strip everything back to the bare bones; they won't suffer from it and you will all benefit. Nearly the school holidays when everyone can catch up on some sleep and you can give them some tasks to complete to earn a trip to the park

OP. I am not going to pretend to have any advice as I only have two DC. It sounds so, so hard. I can totally understand why there was no punishment for the cake. With 4 children including a 10 week old it sounds as if you are just trying to survive. I am assuming that while you punished whoever caused the cake problem the others would have seized the chance to run riot.

Phone up tomorrow about the parenting course. I am doing one atm and have found it so supportive, non-judgemental and genuinely helpful. It is by no means a miracle cure but at least

Sorry pressed post by mistake. At least you are in the system a little bit more as well for
Further help if you need it. .

Your children are like this because whatever discipline you're using isn't working
How insightful. Yes op take that advice.

Op I think you are going to struggle to get helpful advice as your situation isn't most people's. Keeping a five year old and a three year old in check is very easy. Keeping four under six is not.

Discipline is great but if you followed up every time with four kids the tv would be permanently off and you'd leave every restaurant or shop you entered almost immediately. Sometimes you just have to get through life and sometimes you don't want to be house bound.

Is there a subsection for large families or a fb group where you might get more useful info?

asd child will need different handling to the others. positive parenting works well with NT children. they also do a parentiung class for children with SN.

typing quikly as my asd child is waiting to use the computer. ..

There is lots of great advice already been given. But please remember this- you have a teeny baby and so you must be exhausted.
Be kind to yourself.

BewareOfDragons had to re read that a few times thought you were suggesting locking the children in the garden shed! Agree with PP OP, have you tried a reward chart with stickers ? Then at the end of the week they get a treat, maybe picking a TV programme/ film etc doesn't necessarily have to be sweets/something that costs £