To wonder why my children are like this?

[Spudthecat]

I have 4 children they are so so badly behaved, I can't go anywhere without being humiliated due to their bad behaviour, I will be sat at the bus stop and they will be running around in a circle screaming, or hitting eachother and fighting, I have I repeat myself constantly 5/6 times before they listen to anything I say, I will be walking round the supermarket and same as the bus stop they will be running around screaming, I never see children like this, only mine, it's got to the point that I can't go anywhere as they are always causing a massive scene, I've lost count the amount of times I've had to get off a bus or leave a shop

You need to stand by your word - promises and threats. For example if one of my DC was badly behaved I'd immediately take away something they value and explain why and explain that if the behaviour continues that item will be taken away forever. If that same thing happened again that item would be permanently removed.

You're not alone OP.

Lol at 'how do you discipline them?' Wtf can we do to discipline them in the middle if a busy street? There's no space for time out, and we can't exactly raise our voices or sanction things that aren't there to begin with.

Do you have HomeStart in your area? Your health visitor can refer you but you can also self refer. You have under 5s which is all you need to qualify. They can send a volunteer to your home who can help where needed. Our area also runs a weekly family group which limits numbers and is somewhere safe to get together for a cup of tea and chat for a couple of hours. Kind of like a toddler group but much much smaller. My health visitor referred me when the DTS were born as I was struggling emotionally and refusing to leave the house. My HomeStart volunteer managed to persuade me to attend a group one week and I've made some lovely friends as a result. No one judged. No one asked why we were there. There seemed to be an understanding that whatever had brought us there remained outside the group meeting. There were plenty of volunteers who would engage the children in play, painting, playdough etc. They were also there for us and if we needed to chat to them and for them to be our friend for 2 hours then that's what they would be. It's probably the safest environment I've been in since the DTS were born and I wish I could go along now as I'm struggling again. Don't worry about your older 2; it was absolutely fine to bring school aged children along during the school holidays.

OP I'm not sure if this is in your area but we have home start in our area. A person comes to your home for a couple of hours a week and helps with whatever you need help with (not childcare though.) If someone could come and go with you to the park and watch the baby it would give you time to work on and practise expectations and consequences with the older 3. Or even if they watched the baby while at the house you could start off there and build up to going to the park.

Op, firstly I totally feel for you. Secondly you've got 4 very young children, on your own. The only way to survive is to plan your days and weeks with military precision. The children as pp have said need to be worn out with park visits where they can scream and shout to their hearts content. Take picnic sandwiches. At home once they have got rid of a lot of energy, have planned activities- playdoh, lego, etc. Have a set bedtime routine, a set immoveable time and make sure your oldest gets some attention from you. Always read them a bedtime story. Praise. Stop shouting. Does absolutely no good. Simplify your life for a bit and pick your quarrels. If you tackle and criticise everything it just becomes white noise to them. Never go to the supermarket with 4 children. Rewards should be quick- not long drawn out weekly or monthly targets. At the moment daily targets or even hourly targets should be set with immediate reward in order to work. Be firm, far more firm than you feel like you want to be. Once your children are more under control you can relax your rules but for now it's best to be rigid. This will be very tiring for you, but I suspect not as tiring as dealing with unruly children, but do try to have some time to yourself to do something that you like to do ( and for goodness sake don't spend that time doing housework). Good luck op.

And do you know what OP, what scares me more than 'lively' children like ours are the ones so still and quiet and obedient to their parents you wonder how the heck their spirits were broken.

Xpost counting!

1. Set the boundaries. Tell them and write down what constitutes good behaviour. Ask your children what punishment they think is suitable for when god behaviour is not adhered to (works well with my Y1s). Set this in writing and ask your children to 'sign' it in agreement. If they don't, remove ALL privileges until they know that if they want to continue having treats, they MUST obey the rules. Ipads, phones, TVs and sweets are definitely privileges.
2. Set a morning routine for the week. Make sure the children know what time they have to be out of bed, what comes first (breakfast or getting dressed - everyone has their preferences) and ensure that there is no TV or consoles until everyone is dressed. My 5 year old adheres to this rule and it works well.
3. Bedtime. Ensure the children know what time they have to be in bed by. Start the bedtime routine at the same time each night - even weekends. Once they are used to it, you probably could slacken off a bit by 30-60 minutes on weekends - entirely personal choice. Bedtime stories are always a favourite in our house and they see it as a privilege which is a Godsend as I can threaten the removal for bad behaviour and although rare, I have done so.
4. Home Time. When you pick up the eldest two, make sure they know what the agenda is. We have park time for 30 minutes 3 days a week for good behaviour. Sweets are only for those who behave. With more than one, it's tricky to say no to the park for three of them when one has misbehaved. But I have withdrawn sweets from one of my kids for bad behaviour. It's rare though - so they have learnt! Just the odd time they forget!
5. Homework (reading and spellings) before teatime and we do it before TV and Ipads too.
6. Discipline. Follow through the rules and set the punishment when they don't adhere. A warning suffices beforehand; e.g. "No Ipad for the next 24 hours if you choose to continue doing what you are doing. Make a choice about what you SHOULD be doing and make it wise" - works most of the time for mine (they are usually tired when they break the rules!) When the warning doesn't work, if it is a materialistic item, I make sure they can see me 'moving it', 'taking hold of it' and then warn them for the last time. The punishment follows through if they fail a second time to adhere. BUT I always tell them why it was removed and later when they are calm (could maybe even be the next day) we have a chat about what they did that was unwanted and what they should have done.
7. Shopping. Do it online!!! Why put yourself through the stress?

Shopping when you're 3, 5 and 6 is no fun! My 2 year old hates it with the passion or rather she loves it and would rather run around screaming whilst pulling everything off the shelfs. Sometimes it is inevitable but my 2 year old sits in the trolley and if she behaves, she's allowed out. She's back in it if not! Obviously won't work with 3 children aged 3+ so maybe a 'hold hands' rule, 'hod the trolley' rule and ensure they have a small, worthwhile treat for doing so. It's bribery, some people don't agree with it, but it can and does work for many. As long as you ensure you follow through with consequences. Also, don't be afraid to abandon your trolley (you could even ask a member of staff - I worked at Tesco years ago and saw parents doing it!) and take them outside. I did this with my 2 year old at a pub, a party and in a shop. It worked.

1. The most important one - your TIME!! Every child needs 1 on 1 time with a parent. Your 4 are competing for your time and attention and with you being a single parent and with a relatively newborn, it's hard to split yourself 5 ways (I say 5 because you need your own time too!) But try to ensure each of your children has some special time with you - be that a conversation, reading, homework and even playing. It's really important to play with your child. A lot of unwanted behaviour at this age can be due to lack of attention. A child (urinating around the house for example) can be a sign of attention. A child will do anything JUST to get your attention.

Also the advert for the three day nanny on channel 4 has just come on the TV - watch that too. You may pick up some ideas.

Lastly, stay calm. Even in the most frustrating of situations. If you're calm, they'll pick up on it too. I can only imagine that your house is fraught with anger, tension, frustration and lack of privacy! Sometimes we find ourselves in a rut and we need to take a deep breath and tackle one bit at a time.

But time is important. This is not an over-night fix. Nor is it likely to work within a week. But it needs your perseverance to make it work by trusting yourself and giving your children time to learn their new routines, learn the boundaries (and test them because they will - just don't give in!) and to keep telling yourself that YOU are in charge, not them.

Kids have us wrapped round their little finger ONLY if we let them.

You need to set boundaries and become more strict with discipline. What was DDs punishment for eating an entire cake and making a mess, getting yelled at and then being allowed to go about her business? You need to make their be real consequences for this kind of behavior just as much as you need to reward them for good behavior. Take them out and they don't cause a scene? Treat time! They make a mess or cause a scene in public? Grounded. No TV, video games, etc. until they clean up their act. I don't believe in hitting your kids, but there are MANY other ways to discipline them.

I've just been reading 1,2,3 magic, which could work, but as pp have said you need to be consistent all the time.
I've also ordered the book "speak so your kids listen, listen so they speak" but I've also been reading a lot of blogs about staying calm while disciplining them.

Is your house under control? I've been making a real effort recently in tidying things up in the evening, making mornings a lot less stressful, and giving me time with the DCs before school. Before I used to make them breakfast then start on chores while they were dawdled.
I've also got a list in the dining area showing them what they need to do every morning before they can do an activity before school. It's made it a lot easier to see that they can have some control of their time - if they hurry they have plenty of time to play, if they don't then they miss out.
I've also banned TV on a school morning, their attitude improved dramatically!
Good luck!

Great minds and all that MeanAger

user1487175389, I know! There is a family my DS used to go to school with and we still come across them as we don't live too far from them. 4 lovely well behaved children ranging from 8 to 3. The sort my grandmother would have approved of. Always walk from the car to school, close to their mother. Never hear a peep out of them, not even the youngest as a baby. When we are out in public, the same behaviour always. Quiet children who walk along quietly and calmly. But, I never see a smile. They look bemused to be honest. I used to envy their mother and wonder how she did it, but now there are times I worry how she did it.

Telling off is like talking to a wall. Removal of prove lodges is the way to go. Repeatedly. Grounding for a weekend and confiscation of devices work very well. And actually it's lovely to replace them with a walk, the park or baking/crafts etc

Some kids are just quiet, especially when out and about and when strangers are around. They are listeners and watchers.
I was like that as a child too, nothing to do with having their "spirits broken" how rude.

I don't punish my kids, I was never punished as a child neither was my sister, so it came naturally to me to continue that same way of operating.

I'd take it slow. Lay out the ground rules and use reward/consequence to suit their ages.
E.g., sit them all down before you go out and explain clearly your expectations. Tell them what you don't want them to do, like scream, but focus and stress more on what you DO want, such as walk nicely, holding hands, etc. Offer a reward if they do it, and a consequence if they don't.
But keep it simple. Quick walk to the local shop for a loaf of bread, or half an hour on the park.
In fact the park could be the reward for behaving on the trip to the shop.
Or perhaps give reward stickers. Collect ten stickers and get a prize. Consequence could be losing so many stickers.
Kids sometimes respond well to a bit of responsibility... so one could be in charge of carrying a bag, another for finding an item, another for paying. Something for them to focus on and keep them occupied.
Eye spy or other games keep 'my' bored tots in check sometimes.
I nanny for ten children aged from 14 down to 4. When the two 4yr olds and the 5yr old get over excited even I sometimes feel things get a little out of control... Key is to nip it in the bud before it starts 😊
Most of all, persevere!!

Something I started when my DCs were younger that doesn't cost lots at all was a weekly DVD/movie night (it's usually Netflix nowadays) every Saturday night we settle down in the front room with curtains closed, popcorn (dead cheap if you buy the corn and pop it yourself at home- also fun for DC to hear the pops!) and fizzy drink of choice and sometimes a duvet round us and watch a movie. It started out as a "if you're really good all week" treat and it works really well because I limit screens during the week and they don't get fizzy drinks or popcorn at all during the week. It's usually a movie we haven't seen already or one we really like. We build up the excitement during the week talking about how much we are looking forward to it and deciding what we will watch. We take it in turns choosing the movie. It's a good carrot to dangle for good behaviour. You could have a reward chart and say that everyone has to get 5 stars or nobody gets movie night, that way they are all keen to "help" each other behave. Start off easy with the reward chart so they can achieve their stars and get the reward, that way they have experienced the treat and know what they are missing out on if they don't behave.

I found an old book called toddler taming very helpful. I'm sure there must be newer ones that will help you get on track. You need to make routines and stick to them, never lose your temper however bad the provocation. Calm and consistent all the time. ALWAYS ALWAYS follow through with the consequences so make them achievable whatever you do. If you're newly single some of this naughtiness might be them playing up because they miss their father. Sorry about the weeing in the house, i wouldn't like to suggest what the best way to deal with that is, push for that family support worker. Food might also be important, additives sugar etc and not helping them with their behaviour. Always really praise almost to the point it's embarrassing the good stuff they do and try and have things running on encouragement rather than don't do this, stop that etc etc. I don't see why you can't actually sit down with them and say how sad it makes you that they're always being naughty and you would so like them to be good boys and girls so that you can be proud of them and say nice things to them. Watch some super nanny programmes and see how she licks naughty kids into shape and try some phrases out on yours to see what works best. Good luck, parenting is bloody hard work at the best of times and you've got a lot on your plate at the moment.

When I used to get stuck in a rut I'd watch a Supernanny and get inspired by that! I also found that staying calm, speaking in a firm but calm voice really helps a lot! Easier said than done. hope things improve for you.

It's really hard sometimes isn't it? So happy you're not smacking them.
Some days I have to run my two like a military operation. I can basically clock when their blood sugar goes down (bananas are your friend!) and when they haven't been exercised. I tend to pick my fights and when behaviour is totally bloody unacceptable the consequence I threaten with is putting their favourite thing in the shed. They know I'll follow through on it if they don't stop, so it works pretty well.
I gave up on shopping with the long ago ...
You've had some great advice, I really hope it gets easier.

And can I also just say that whilst keeping calm and taking deep breaths is really important, and helps massively, don't beat yourself up if you snap. It's really hard to stay calm all the time. The day is not ruined because you snapped and shouted at lunchtime. It's fine. If you have made it from breakfast to lunch without shouting then you're doing better than the day before. Take it in small steps and don't forget that the other person who needs praise is YOU! You need praise for the hard work you are doing and it has to come from yourself. No more negative talk, give yourself a pep talk every morning and as many times throughout the day as you need it. Take 5 minutes outside to catch your breath, get your head showered and get ready to go back in and parent. Do that a million times a day if you need to.

Hold on, 6, 5, 3 and 10 weeks - oldest daughter on Autistic SPectrum - I think you are doing bloody well to be holding it together.

So locks are your friends. Routines are your friends. And Limited SCreens are your friends.

Sweets are not your friends. Kitchen access is not your friend. Children being in a different room is not going to work for you, they are too young and your eldest is too uncontrolled due to ASD. EVERYONE comes upstairs with you. EVeryone comes into the kitchen with you (and sits on the floor with paper and chalk, which is super washable).

Meals have to be simple while they are this small, and shopping can be done while the other three are at nursery and school. Does the nursery child have a hot meal at lunch? If so, all kids can have a school dinner and tea can be a sandwich or something on toast.

Don't take them out unless you have some help. They are just too much.

Try very very hard not to shout. Engage and use very simple sentences spoken firmly and calmly. When you say no, that is IT. Never even go back on NO.

And they never leave your sight unless they are asleep. Never. Sit on the landing with a book or your phone if you have to.

OP I just want to say that with a ten week old and THREE other children to look after you are doing an incredible job just keeping them all alive.

well done and pat yourself on the back - the discipline will come when you aren't so tired, just try to stick to calm , routines and tv to keep everyone peaceful when you are knackered xx

'Setting limits with your strong willed child' is absolutely brilliant. Read it, it is so great for turning around a situation like this. I got advice and tips from it and I recommend it to everyone. It WORKS. Good luck.

Place marking OP and sending virtual hug, faith, courage and . X

Definitely second the movie night idea. If they can't manage a ful movie, a programme but made special with a snack tea first then popcorn and blankets. It may be achievable and doesn't involve going out. It is perhaps an easier first step than some of the other strategies which are very sensible but may be very difficult if they are running wild.

Oh and... first thing I was told on the parenting course... ignore the stares or give any people commenting negatively while you are out a death stare or cutting comment .

Mine get to hear my expectations when we are out - you will do X YZ - if you achieve those then A will happen.

They know the rules

They can understand rules at school and you don't seem to have any

Consequences - short and sharp -

Cake - agree she cleans up and misses out on the next 2 cakes - natural consequence and obvious to the others

Running round the bus stop - absolulty NO - what if one pushes the other into the road? They are a danger