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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Charlie Gard case

999 replies

LovelyBath77 · 06/07/2017 09:41

AIBU to feel the drama over this poor little boy is not helpful? I read the Pope and Donald Trump were suggesting they help- when several courts have agreed it is in his best interests to let the little boy die with dignity. I feel sorry for him as he may be in pain and it is unfair to add further to false hope for the parents as well. I also feel that many, many people has awful situations where babies die, sadly, for example stillbirths and other cases which are just un-heard and un-noticed and people have to deal with it, so why is there such a huge focus here.

OP posts:
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abbsisspartacus · 07/07/2017 11:32

I wish he could have peace but the point is he will never get it many people will never believe it's not a conspiracy

ShatnersWig · 07/07/2017 11:32

Spud No, someone was reposting something from the CA page - see last two lines of that post.

The chance of the parents giving that money to GOSH is about as much as me winning the lottery tomorrow

Maudlinmaud · 07/07/2017 11:32

Lol Stopnamechanging my heart stopped when I saw that post earlier Grin
Everyone is going to attack you

PerpetuallyDisturbed · 07/07/2017 11:34

I think people here are just getting fed up with the general idiocy of CA.

Yesterday I saw someone post on Facebook that they was going to protest to overturn the courts ruling and asking other people to join in. I asked whether she had read the court details to know why the decision she wants to appeal was made in the first place and of course the answer was no. How self absorbed can you be to try to have some sort of influence over the care and wellbeing of another person when they hadn't even bothered to do the bare minimum of research before hand? How big headed to think their opinion should be regarded higher than the opinions of extensively trained medical professions? it's disgusting and it infuriates me.

People can hold whatever opinion of this case as they like but if they are going to trying to influence it in some way in the form of protests, petitions, the sharing of supposed 'new evidence' etc then they should be making sure it's an informed opinion. It is, IMO, incredibly selfish and down right ridiculous to do so otherwise.

muckypup73 · 07/07/2017 11:35

abbsisspartacus,only an idiot would think it was a conspiracy, someone with no time on their hands.

TheWeeWitch · 07/07/2017 11:35

My lovely GOSH Peter Pan mugs have just arrived in the post! I felt it important to purchase these and donate to them at this time.

Charlie Gard case
Stopnamechanging · 07/07/2017 11:35

OhUnpretentiousSpud sorry, I should have made it more clear. It was hard to bold the original message. Flowers

PacificDogwod · 07/07/2017 11:36

They have no clue what somebody with only a function brain stem would look like - the ignorance is staggering.
His eyes being structurally normal would not allow him to see if his cerebral cortex is not working.

I had a reply from GOSH this morning which I think is very dignified:

"Our priority is to provide every possible support to Charlie’s parents as we prepare for the next steps. As with all of our patients, we are not able to discuss these specific details of care. This is a very distressing situation for Charlie’s parents and all the staff involved and our focus remains with them.

We would ask you to give the family and our staff some space and privacy at this distressing time. We are not able to respond to questions in more detail as we need to maintain the confidentiality of the patient and family."

Thanks
mydogisthebest · 07/07/2017 11:37

How and why is Charlie's mum accusing GOSH of leaving them out of meetings?

How would the parents know when a meeting was being held unless they are held regularly every day/week or whenever.

I am sure the doctors do not say "we are having a meeting but you are not coming" and I very much doubt where they meet is within sight of the parents.

mydogisthebest · 07/07/2017 11:39

I am going to buy some mugs from GOSH and intend to set up a regular monthly payment from next month. Wish I could start it today but money is very tight this month.

nina2b · 07/07/2017 11:41

The Doctor's are perfectly entitled to hold meeting without asking permission from the great British public.

goodbyestranger · 07/07/2017 11:41

I doubt much meaningful dialogue could take place at meetings where the parents are present, so no doubt some decisions about the hospital's approach do have to be taken in their absence.

nina2b · 07/07/2017 11:41

The doctors are perfectly entitled to hold meetings without asking permission from the great British public.

Phone - grr

Maudlinmaud · 07/07/2017 11:42

weewitch any chance of seeing the mugs. Just for a little light relief and I'll stick on the kettle.

ShatnersWig · 07/07/2017 11:42

mydog Because she will say anything to ensure the baying mob continue their madness. This is why I believe it went long beyond "normal" denial quite some time ago

LogicalPsycho · 07/07/2017 11:42

Maudlinmaud I am not 100% sure if it would need to go back to court.

The judgements say the High Court backs the wishes of GOSH, based on the medical evidence presented.
But ultimately as their patient, the decision to withdraw or persist with Life Support now rests entirely with GOSH. They can withdraw it because the court has granted that order, OR they can continue to ventilate based on new information/ a change in their medical opinion.

But yes, GOSH can choose to continue treating Charlie and not follow through with the judgement order they originally requested of the High Court if they decide to.

Stopnamechanging · 07/07/2017 11:43

As parents, we were never allowed to be present for ward round discussions in scbu, maybe she is referring to that? Confused

mydogisthebest · 07/07/2017 11:44

nina2, of course they are but Charlie's mum making those accusations are fueling the barmy army, if they actually need any fueling.

Someone has just posted on their facebook page "It's about time GOSH started showing some compassion instead of worrying about their reputation. We're all behind you Charlie "

Words fail me

TheWeeWitch · 07/07/2017 11:45

@Maudlinmaud you want to see my mugs?! Wink

I guess you can't see the photo for some reason. Here's the link:

shop.gosh.org/catalogue/peter-pan-homeware/limited-edition-no.4-peter-pan-and-wendy-mug

nina2b · 07/07/2017 11:46

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, it is said. None at all beats that.

StiffyByng · 07/07/2017 11:46

I've been reading comments on here and elsewhere with the same sense of frustration as some others at the lack of understanding of mitochondrial disease, and the way that this lack of understanding doesn't stop people expressing strong opinions that must be devastating for parents (is devastating actually) who have lost children to mitochondrial disease to read.

I'd like to give huge Flowers to all those who have shared their stories of losing children on here.

My two nephews died of mitochondrial disease, the second five years ago now. They had a variant that only four people in the world have been diagnosed with. It really matters when talking about treatment - these tiny variations make a big difference in how children respond to things because their genes are doing different things.

Mitochondrial encephalopathy is progressive, and incurable. This experimental treatment appears to be looking to halt progression in the variants that are responsive to it. It won't reverse existing damage because those cells are now gone. They burn out and can't be replaced.

In some cases degeneration happens gradually and in others dramatically. Overnight a function (e.g. Swallowing, digesting, muscle power) is lost. Sometimes, as with types of MS, the function is partially regained in time but some essential loss remains, and will worsen the next time. In other types the damage is serious and permanent.

The field of mitochondrial disease is still relatively small as it only began to be understood very well in the 1980s; it remains under diagnosed now. Five years ago the U.K. only had four mito research centres (that may have increased since) but they contained world experts. I can guess at the identity of those treating Charlie and the expert witness in Newcastle because the field is so small, but they are so bloody good.

The lives of both my nephews were made unbearable by this vile, untreatable disease. One died as a baby, after my brother and wife were advised to have ventilator support removed because the part of his brain that supported breathing was no longer working. He died an hour after the ventilator was turned off. You can imagine how they are finding the current coverage. They trusted their medical team completely and were advised that life on the ventilator was distressing for their son, that he might be in pain, and that he would be very likely to die of opportunistic infection in any case.

My other nephew was older. In him, we saw the loss of our healthy boy as he lost the ability to see, walk, swallow, think, his continence and had constant seizures. His end of life care was in a hospice and his plan stated no medical intervention other than measures to keep him comfortable. The only treatment his world class clinician could offer was vitamins and amino acids because that's all there is.

Charlie won't get better. In the very unlikely event he responds to treatment that has never been tried on his illness before, he would stay as he is, perhaps very, very slightly improved.

We raise funds for mitochondrial research and are part of two very supportive and knowlegeable parent support groups who remain connected to research and medical staff. If this treatment was offering miracles, we would know.

My heart breaks for Charlie's parents but this case is hideous, and must be destroying the HCPs too. I hope for everyone's sake that Charlie is allowed to be at peace soon.

Maudlinmaud · 07/07/2017 11:49

Saw them on the other thread weewitch I like them. Think I'll get a few.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/07/2017 11:49

GOSH can choose to continue treating Charlie and not follow through with the judgement order they originally requested of the High Court

Which begs the question of whether there's a "time limit" on the courts' orders ... in other words, whether they'd need to have the order "re-confirmed" if this drags on and on?

And BTW I also agree about the appalling precedent it would set if medics denied their professional judgement because of a baying mob and sadly deluded parents

SerfTerf · 07/07/2017 11:51

GOSH can choose to continue treating Charlie and not follow through with the judgement order they originally requested of the High Court

Wouldn't that make the hospital's lawyers extremely twitchy, at the very least?

Oogle · 07/07/2017 11:51

stiffy Thank you so much for that post. I am so very sorry your family had to go through that twice.

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