My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

MNHQ have commented on this thread

AIBU?

Charlie Gard case

999 replies

LovelyBath77 · 06/07/2017 09:41

AIBU to feel the drama over this poor little boy is not helpful? I read the Pope and Donald Trump were suggesting they help- when several courts have agreed it is in his best interests to let the little boy die with dignity. I feel sorry for him as he may be in pain and it is unfair to add further to false hope for the parents as well. I also feel that many, many people has awful situations where babies die, sadly, for example stillbirths and other cases which are just un-heard and un-noticed and people have to deal with it, so why is there such a huge focus here.

OP posts:
Report
Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/07/2017 10:39

YANBU

Report
JonSnowsWhore · 06/07/2017 10:40

Podge before giving him the treatment GOSH would have assessed his level of brain damage and his condition. They found it to be too far gone unfortunately, therefore did not go forward with the treatment as it would have been pointless & cruel to Charlie to prolong his sufferings. The American doctor hasn't been made aware of how far advanced CHarlies condition was at first, when he was, he also admitted there was little point in going ahead with the treatment, however he said he still would, 'should the parents be able to pay for it'
That says a lot about why the offer of the treatment in America was still there 💵

Report
TheFairyCaravan · 06/07/2017 10:42

I've read the judgements. It makes it all much easier to understand.

It baffles me why people think that GOSH aren't doing the best for this baby. If treatment was an option, or in his best interests, he'd have been given it.

Report
MumIsRunningAMarathon · 06/07/2017 10:42

Oh dear samcro posters are able to be sensible and feel compassion all at the same time you know!!'

Report
JonSnowsWhore · 06/07/2017 10:42

Sorry, bad spelling & grammar there, feeding baby while typing

Report
Notknownatthisaddress · 06/07/2017 10:47

Completely agree, but it has been done to death on another thread with over 1000 posts on it.

Most people on mumsnet, (which has both surprised me and pleased me, as it proves we are a fairly intelligent bunch after all!) think the poor little lad needs to be left in peace, that he is never going to get better, and he should be allowed to die with dignity.

Also, most people here 'get' that he has an illness that will just leave him needing care for life if he lives.

The people (mostly women) on the 'Charlie's Army' facebook page are completely nuts. They are irrational and dangerous, and they are arranging things like demonstrations and suchlike, to demand that he is allowed to live!

As I said on a thread yesterday, it's like these women have been brainwashed, because they are spouting utter garbage.

And don't even get me STARTED on Donald Trump and the POPE joining in. Hmm

Report
Samcro · 06/07/2017 10:50

MumIsRunningAMarathon maybe you missed the op's dig at the parents.
"It is terribly sad, but it's not all about them. It's about harm to a child, as well."

i was just hoping that at last we were going to have a thread that didn't turn into a parent bashing one.

Report
JonSnowsWhore · 06/07/2017 10:50

It's not GOSH's fault that Charlie deteriorated as quickly as he did basically. People don't become Doctors to enjoy watching children die. They would have loved to have saved that little boy's life. They're bloody good people & deserve better than all of this.

The reason they don't want to let him go to America is because they have a duty of care towards their patient & they don't think it's fair to Charlie, a little baby, to be a human Guinea pig for what will only basically be a drug trial. He is not the right patient to cause prolonged suffering to with no happy outcome.

Report
53rdWay · 06/07/2017 10:52

Podge - it would have taken time from when Charlie first became ill, to diagnose him and then look for possible treatments, starting with what might work and has developed research behind it before moving on to the really experimental stuff (like this one which hasn't been tested even on mice with Charlie's condition yet). And then it had to go through ethics approval, to make sure it was worth giving to Charlie, and it's during that process that they found out his brain damage had worsened. This was all by January as I understand - they moved as fast as they could. Sad

Report
JonSnowsWhore · 06/07/2017 10:54

MumIsRunningAMarathon maybe you missed the op's dig at the parents.
"It is terribly sad, but it's not all about them. It's about harm to a child, as well."

i was just hoping that at last we were going to have a thread that didn't turn into a parent bashing one.

I was on the last thread so I know the comments you're talking about, and do understand what you mean. Ultimately though, this whole battle between the courts & parents is about what's best for Charlie vs the parents wants, that's what this whole shit storm is about 😔

Report
LovelyBath77 · 06/07/2017 10:55

That comment wasn't about 'having a dig' at the parents- as the court says they have been calm and dignified, however it is getting to the stage where they are refusing to let the child go. If he didn't have the ventilator he would have died by now. Therefore due to this they are prolonging his pain and brain damage etc. Those are the facts of the case.

Please don;t assume I am lacking in compassion or here to 'have a go'. I'm not.

OP posts:
Report
RMC123 · 06/07/2017 10:58

MumIsRunningAMarathon maybe you missed the op's dig at the parents.
"It is terribly sad, but it's not all about them. It's about harm to a child, as well."



I don't see that as dig at the parents. I see that as a statement of fact. No matter how hard that maybe to process or come to terms with. Sometimes showing true compassion isn't about going along with whatever someone desperately wants; it's about acting in a person's best interests. In this case Charlie's.
I have compassion, empathy and sympathy with Charlie's parents but I think their understandable grief is working against the best interests of Charlie.
That is why GOSH took the very unusual step of seeking legal support and guidance.
And I also agree that reference to Asha King is unhelpful. Two completely different and unrelated cases.

Report
SilverLining17 · 06/07/2017 11:05

Charlie's mother responded directly to me on FB and said that the MRI scans are wrong and the doctors are liars. She said GOSH don't want to be seen to be unable to give as good treatment as America which is why they wouldn't let him go here and that the American treatment offers 10% chance of a cure. Which isn't what I've heard in the press so now I don't know what to think really. She said all judgements have been made on what GOSH have said and they have lied so basically are worthless. Sad

I literally cannot imagine what those parents are feeling at the moment.

Report
Rach5l · 06/07/2017 11:08

The treatment offered by one doctor in America has never even been tested on mice let alone a human

This explains the baby's condition much better than emotive facebook posts: www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

Report
Asparaguswee · 06/07/2017 11:11

Whatever is currently happening with the case I really think the parents need to pull all media coverage now. This is a child, a boy with absolutely no privacy or even a shred of dignity. Selling phone cases, sweets and air fresheners with his face on? What the fuck is that going to achieve? It's disgusting and wrong. This whole case being played out on social media is wrong. This child deserves to be treated with decency, not as a pawn in a sick game where there are no winners.

Report
fatdogs · 06/07/2017 11:13

@silverlining did Charlie's mother say why the scans are wrong. I assume she does not have a medical degree or any specialist or training in this particular condition and it's effects? Has she had an independent medical expert assess the scans and tell her they are wrong? If she has, what are the qualifications of that expert as opposed to the GOSH team and independent experts who testified at trial?
Has the mother presented any logical reason as to why ALL the doctors working on the case are liars? What do they gain from lying?

Report
RMC123 · 06/07/2017 11:19

SilverLining that must have bee heart rending. However they haven't actually realised the name of one doctor who has been able to support their claims. The court judgements took evidence from many different sources. This includes the US doctor who has now withdrawn his initial offer of treatment on the grounds it is futile.
The harsh but undeniable truth is that his parents aren't doctors. They are loving, genuine and heartbroken and truly I have every sympathy but they aren't able to interpret a complex MRI scan.
And why would any doctor, at GOSH or anywhere else want not to proven wrong in this situation? That makes no logical sense at all. GOSH are world renowned and consult with other teams all over the world. The time, care and money that they have poured into Charlie has all been in the hope of the best possible outcome.

Report
fatdogs · 06/07/2017 11:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

CaveMum · 06/07/2017 11:21

From what I've heard, the MRI scans that are being waved around to "prove" Charlie does not have brain damage are at least 4 months old. He has a degenerative condition so of course those scans are no longer relevant, but people seem unable to accept this.

The parents have every right to do their absolute best to see that Charlie is given the very best treatment, but this has gone beyond that. Of course they don't want to watch their darling boy die but they are being given false hope by people who don't understand the full facts.

As others have said, you don't work somewhere like GOSH if you don't care about children. Those doctors will have done everything in their power to help him, but the fact is that not everyone can be saved/cured.

Report
LovelyBath77 · 06/07/2017 11:22

"Charlie's mother responded directly to me on FB and said that the MRI scans are wrong and the doctors are liars."-

But on the court papers it says the doctor they wanted to take him to had also seen the scans and then said the treatment wouldn't reverse the brain damage.

OP posts:
Report
LovelyBath77 · 06/07/2017 11:24

Oh, I don't know what to think about that. They couldn't make up the scan results, which have been seen by others and plenty of experts. So therefore it seems the parents are deluded? Confused

OP posts:
Report
LovelyBath77 · 06/07/2017 11:25

Surely they will have more recent scans though?

OP posts:
Report
Cutesbabasmummy · 06/07/2017 11:27

I think it's important to consider quality of life rather than life at all costs. I have every sympathy for all involved in this case but am aghast at the vitriolic comments left on the GOSH's Facebook page. The Hippocratic oath states: First do no harm. The Drs clearly believe that by keeping Charlie alive they are subjecting him to harm.

Report
SilverLining17 · 06/07/2017 11:27

She just said the MRI scans showed he wasn't brain damaged and some other tests had shown responsiveness.
I had read that the MRI doesn't show cellular damage which is why it presents at structurally normal. It isn't a brain injury. But surely she knows that too?
I didn't reply because I didn't know what to say. What could I possibly say? I still don't agree with her but it is her child so what do I know really? It's nothing to do with me I realise, id just responded to someone on FB stating that GOSH were murderers and my post was deleted when I said they weren't and then she messaged me.

Report
LogicalPsycho · 06/07/2017 11:33

Silver Charlie's parents also responded to me, saying their Son is not terminally ill.

Their words.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.