to not know how to explain transgender child in DD's class

[Peaches44]

I'm sorry if this comes across offensive but I am incredibly naive when it comes to these kinds of issues.

DD has a boy in her class, they are in reception year. At the start of the year she asked if the DC was a boy or girl and I could only answer as being not sure. The mother is very quiet so I hadn't heard her refer to the child as a he or she. The name is more 'boy' but could possibly be a girls also, the child wears a mixture of girls and boys uniforms and on non-school uniform days they wear girls clothes.

DD now knows he is a boy, but he is apparently allowed in the girls toilets and DD at 4 doesn't understand why, she also said a few other boys see this boy able to go in the girls and the boys follow.

She has asked a few times why he does tis etc. and I don't know the right answer, they are likely to be in the same school year for the whole of primary so they are questions I need to answer but I don't know how.

Would the mother be offended if I talked with her about it??

Honestly, can you even hear yourselves? This is properly bonkers.

No, your idea that males will just stop raping women if we ... what? Submit to them in every possible way and let them into all our spaces?

THAT is properly bonkers. (And sounds like something the Catholic Church might say, to boot)

It's properly bonkers, no debate there. It's outrageously bonkers that people think we as women should accept our daughters growing up in a society where they will have less rights than their great grandmothers did.

You want to support what is essentially a group of men who are advocating against women's rights then that's your choice. But don't call yourself a feminist whilst doing so.

Oh for goodness' sake, grow the fuck up.

My great grandmothers didn't have the right to vote, or own property, or choose when and whether to become pregnant, or choose whether to carry pregnancies to term, or to get a mortgage, or to run for office.

Don't you fucking dare say I can't call myself a feminist because I don't sign up to your specific version of it.

Because they were women, Pansiesandredrosesandmarigolds.

Do you define women differently to those who stopped your ancestors doing those things?

Lurked

It's just very polarised . I don't agree with the aggressive trans movement and demands and bullying . I don't think that aggressive adult trans should have acess to women's space . I have read it all here really .

But I also believe that a child enduring this should be treated kindly / especially when pre pubescent.

I also think this issue is here to stay and kids (should it arise) should be taught compassion.

I find it very sad that's it become so polarised as a gender confused reception child is not the same as an aggressive man saying he 'must' be in a woman's prison

What about your grandmother though pansy as that would be the relevant generation? Would she have been expected to share a wrens dormitory with a man? Or expected to include a man in the women's institute, or to define herself as cis rather than being a women, or rename parts of her anatomy, or define her role because of her dress? Because that's what you want the current generation of female children to grow up and accept without argument.

Don't you fucking dare say I can't call myself a feminist because I don't sign up to your specific version of it

It's not a specific version of it, its the basic tenet. Feminism = equal rights for women. You're advocating we hand over womens rights in favour of men who say they feel like women. That is the very definition of anti feminist.

Sorry to burst your bubble but saying that a man is a woman because he feels like one, is what is properly bonkers.

I don't think that aggressive adult trans should have acess to women's space

Oh, really?

And how do you suggest we keep them out other than by, you know, segregating by sex?
Toss a coin for each adult male who wants to use the women's toilet, or what? Hope it is written on his forehead?

This is a child who will (if he does not reject his parents' bonkers idiocy) grow up into a male who feels entitled to invade women's spaces.

At what age do you suggest we toss a coin to find out whether he'll behave aggressive and violent when there's no one there to hinder him?
10? 15? 20?

Pansies, your arguments are so weak, illogical and stupid, you can't even post without using the word 'fuck' several times in an attempt to add weight. Here's a clue. It isn't working.

Sorry to burst your bubble but saying that a man is a woman because he feels like one, is what is properly bonkers.

This.

Anyone who wants us to pretend that men can be women simply by feeling somehow feminine in a way that no one can ever fucking explain, should know that this is what they support:

globalnews.ca/news/3300518/concerns-over-transgender-client-at-okanagan-shelter/

This is what you support, this is what you want, this is what you advocate for, and don't you fucking DARE to deny that.

Women are being thrown out of women's shelters for refusing to share rooms with MALES. (THE BEPENISED KINDK YOU KNOW?) ALREADY because of what you want and say and do.

FUCKING ADMIT that you hate women and want women to be kicked out onto the streets so that males get their genderfeelz validated (and access to vulnerable women, to boot).

ADMIT IT; OR STOP IT!

Vestal - that's the one positive thing about those dicks who wear "I punch TERFs" t-shirts: they are at least identifying themselves as exactly the type of violent men who should be kept out of women's spaces

stop - I don't think anyone on here has said anything to suggest that we don't want the 4yo in question (or any child, trans or otherwise) to be treated with anything other than compassion or kindness. We are simply pointing out that showing compassion to one child should not be at the expense of another child, particularly as we are seeing increasing instances where one group (girls and women) is repeatedly thrown under the bus by another group (boys and men)

Oh yes, and the trans movement is 'the most anti feminist and offensive to women thing that has ever happened'.

Having men tell me that I'm womaning wrong and they can show me how to do it right is pretty bad really.
Having people who are female because they feel it, not because they have vaginas, periods and tits, take female a role in company is pretty bad too.

stop of course he should be treated with compassion, and of course he is no threat. But what do you do in 4,6,10,20 years time when all these children are older? Announce one day he can't use those spaces anymore? Or what if one of those girls already feels uncomfortable with him in there? And even if it's defined as only for a year, then it's the same message, girls must accept whatever is best for the boy. If 4yr old girls can be expected to show consideration for his feelings then he is just as capable of considering theirs.

My biggest concern for him would be the fact his parents are deranged in encouraging him to believe he's a girl if he likes dresses.

stop trouble is, when girls are taught to be kind and compassionate to males as children, they are then in a very good position for men to take advantage of that kindness and compassion. How often on MN to we read about women who have spent a lifetime putting themselves last, to their great detriment.

Girls need to know that they can speak up when they are made to feel uncomfortable, and they can speak out when a male is where he shouldn't be, and that they will be listened to, not dismissed, as women's concerns are so frequently. If they can't, then you end up with the current situation whereby a male who says he is frightened of men in the toilets is listened to, but a female isn't. She's told to shut up and shove over. Dismissed. Silenced.

If a child is confused about gender it's simple. Teach them that they can wear what they like, play with what they like - it has nothing to do with their sex. I would guess that this child comes from a home where gender stereotypes are rigidly enforced.

And where do we draw the line at the "kindness" we should show?

When anorexics say that they feel fat and are disturbed by what they see when they look in the mirror, we don't allow them to starve themselves. When other vulnerable people say that they feel so discomforted by themselves that the only way they can get relief is by cutting themselves, we don't tell them that they are brave and give them a set of sharp blades. When people with Prader-Willis syndrome have an unstoppable compulsion to over-eat, sometimes eating non-food products, because their body tells them that they should, we help develop strategies for them to manage that compulsion, not give them free rein at the all you can eat buffet.

But when a boy says that they feel like a girl, we are supposed to be kind and tell them how brave they are, and let them go to school in pink sparkly shoes and use the girls toilet? Er, no.

If 4yr old girls can be expected to show consideration for his feelings then he is just as capable of considering theirs.

Yes, he is.

But apparently, to all those genderists, girls and boys aren't so equal after all.

It is girls, actual, real girls who are told to be compassionate.

The male can just walk all over them, feeling no compassion whatsoever, even though he's allegedly female. What a double-think.

Girls and boys are equal, but boys are a bit more equal, apparently.

... sorry, that should have been:

male "girls" are a bit more equal than girls and boys.

Well thanks for not shouting at me

I just don't bloody know really . I pity anyone with a child in this scenario as right now it's a lose lose scenario . You can pretty much guarantee that a child who is gender confused has a fucking rocky road ahead

And I agree for teenage girls having a boy suddenly invade their changing room is abhorrent .

But for reception aged child I feel that a gentle approach is required as at that smalll age they share toilets and change for PE together anyway IYSWIM

And maybe the parent aren't bonkers and are having sleepless nights thinking 'what the fuck do we do here '

Also what if this child was a girl? We know there is a very famous little girl who seems to identify as male / they also exist

Is there Stop?

Please stop shouting. Those who do should remember that it risks discrediting their arguments to those reading but not joining in.

Yes Shiloh Jolie

as at that smalll age they share toilets and change for PE together anyway

But it seems that in this case they don't share toilets. In your uncertainty you are resolving the matter by replacing the facts as related by the OP with alternative facts that provide for easier rationalisation.

So someone with a perfectly ordinary upbringing who isn't going to be a complete psychological fuck up then.