to not know how to explain transgender child in DD's class

[Peaches44]

I'm sorry if this comes across offensive but I am incredibly naive when it comes to these kinds of issues.

DD has a boy in her class, they are in reception year. At the start of the year she asked if the DC was a boy or girl and I could only answer as being not sure. The mother is very quiet so I hadn't heard her refer to the child as a he or she. The name is more 'boy' but could possibly be a girls also, the child wears a mixture of girls and boys uniforms and on non-school uniform days they wear girls clothes.

DD now knows he is a boy, but he is apparently allowed in the girls toilets and DD at 4 doesn't understand why, she also said a few other boys see this boy able to go in the girls and the boys follow.

She has asked a few times why he does tis etc. and I don't know the right answer, they are likely to be in the same school year for the whole of primary so they are questions I need to answer but I don't know how.

Would the mother be offended if I talked with her about it??

Wait - so not only does this child get to use whatever toilet they feel like using, depending on whether they 'feel like a girl' or like a boy that day but, on the days they 'feel like a girl' (my assumption based on those posters who are supportive of this), they can flout the school uniform rules?

WTAF?!

How unhygienic to menstruate in a public toilet. Women's toilets are for delicate feminine bodily functions like shaking your penis after you've had a wee.

jenny again I'd really like someone to explain why biological females should be just fine sharing with biological males, but a male who thinks they are female is too vulnerable to share with males?

I don't use a mooncup but now I'm tempted to get one just for public toilets. Maybe that's how we can claim our spaces, we can chase them out with our disgusting sanitary products

jenny again I'd really like someone to explain why biological females should be just fine sharing with biological males, but a male who thinks they are female is too vulnerable to share with males?

The never answered question.

Women's toilets are to be used for their specific and correct purpose of performing femininity.

Jenny

Don't bother - I know what you meant and said similar but really - some strongly held views and it's a waste of time and it turns into an argument

Do something nicer instead

What could be nicer than explaining what you mean about something that is important to you to people who are genuinely interested?

Why is it up to girls to explain periods to boys? Can't their parents and teachers, in the same way that girls learn about them? Or do you think that if girls and women don't solve the problem, that means they are the problem? Is that it?

Maybe, if men bothered to take it upon themselves to educate the next generation of men, if they stopped having a problem with feminine men and women, and stopped assaulted feminine men and women in toilets, none of this need be an issue. Men could pee in the men's, women could pee and deal with their periods in the women's.

You might also want to know that at the University of Toronto, in trans central Canada, they had to get rid of their gender neutral toilets not long after creating them - because of voyeuristic men filming women. But I suppose you, jenny, would think that's the women's fault, somehow.

There's a reason people have strong held views over toilets for four year olds. And it's not because they think it is intrinsically going to damage a child of either sex, there and then.

It's about saying that because you have a lady brain you must be female. And not only that, but you must use all the female facilities, despite having a male body.

stop isn't that the equivalent of saying 'because I say so'? If you don't think anyone should explain a contradictory statement because as women we should just blindly accept everything then at least own that opinion instead of coming up with excuses why you don't want to explain.

The more I hear from the transgender movement, the more I am reminded of a small spoilt child.

'You're
being mean to not give me your things'
'Why am I mean?'
'Because I said so. Not telling you why cos you're a meanie'

Maybe that's how we can claim our spaces, we can chase them out with our disgusting sanitary products.

The only time I'd be remotely tempted to use a gender neutral toilet would be when changing a tampon. Then I could come out of the cubicle with red fingers.

Until someone can explain what 'feeling like a girl even though you have male genitals' actually means and why we should give that notion any more credence than feeling like you're black rather than white, or a highly successful lawyer rather than an unemployed manual worker, then I'll carry on believing they're all just delusional thinking.

I don't use a moon cup but I have washed blood from my fingers in a public wash hand basin loads of times. Have you honestly not thought of that before HiJenny? I've never thought about not using a sink in case it's had blood rinsed through it, it's not like you touch the sink. Maybe I'm less squeamish as it's something I deal with every month.

Isn't that the whole reason we have basins in the first place? Because your hands may have come into contact with germs/bodily fluids, whether that's urine, blood, faeces.

If that's not the case, why wash your hands at all?

I swish round the sink after I've used it for anything more than straightforward handwashing anyway, and even then if there are loads of soap suds still I might clean it out a bit more, and I certainly wash away any menstrual blood I might have inadvertently left behind in the sink. That's probably because I've been socialised as a female to do nice things for other people.

Next time I am in a public toilet I shall ensure that I only use the toilets for a delicate lady wee and the mirror for re-applying my make up (ignoring any cystic acne that might have appeared as a result of hormones linked to my menstrual cycle). Maybe then I will be a proper woman, eh

empress would be better to hack your way out of the cubicle jack Nicholson style, dripping blood and shouting 'here's Johnny' as you brandish your red fingers.

Me either did. I suppose that's just because I don't tend to think of what else people are washing off their hands after using the toilet!

I wanted to be a boy for a year or so when I was in junior school. George in the Famous Five was my heroine! She had all the fun with Julian and Dick, whilst Anne made the frikken sandwiches and was generally boring.

Sadcatlady69

Every single time I see the trans ideology being discussed, there are so many women who say exactly that. Usually followed by heartfelt relief that being trans wasn't a thing when it happened to them.

Especially as children presenting to gender clinics has doubled in the last year.

I'm lucky that in my mid teens (late 90's) it was all about gay rights and people coming out as gay, which obviously was great for people who were gay, but even those who weren't and were confused, or experimenting, or downright desperate to be cool and declared they were gay didn't do themselves any harm. Or more importantly harm others around them. Those same personalities would now be doing themselves and others permanent damage as transgender.

Of course it goes without saying gay rights and transactivism are polar opposites in every way and I'm not comparing them as causes. I'm comparing the consequences of what was the 'in' thing to be.

If my child attended a school that encouraged transgenderism at the age of 4, I would immediately remove her. I find this unbelievable. 4 years old, it's absolutely the parents creating this completely unnecessary situation. Unfair to their child and to everyone else. They are totally alienating their child.

The trans movement is the most anti feminist and offensive to women thing that has ever happened and is a perfect example of highly manipulative men working out how to dominate the last safe spaces that women can be in

Any so-called feminist supporting this is degrading the whole notion of equal rights that have been hard fought for, and they are useful idiots to a small number of men who any right-thinking person can clearly see are mentally ill

'Performing femininity'? What the hell does that mean?

Using the mirror in the women's toilet to apply make up. That's what the women's toilets are there for, you know? Apply make up and perhaps giggle stupidly for a bit.

Nothing to do with there being privacy from males or bins for sanitary products, or anything like that.

No, it is just for performing femininity. Which is why males soooo totally need to be able to use them. Despite not having periods and not needing privacy from males.

Excellent. I'm not a feminist, I'm a degrading useful idiot for mentally ill and manipulative men.

Good to know.

I sometimes think mumsnet fwr is actually a sophisticated cover operation run by the catholic church.

If my child attended a school that encouraged transgenderism at the age of 4, I would immediately remove her. I find this unbelievable. 4 years old, it's absolutely the parents creating this completely unnecessary situation. Unfair to their child and to everyone else. They are totally alienating their child.

Yeah, it is very telling that the trans allies on here are totally on board with parents transing a 4 year old child. Who may have said he wants to be a girl, but may also have said he wants to be a dinosaur. Or a cat.

(As for why he sometimes uses the girls' and sometimes the boy's toilet, he is probably a completely normal 4 year old who neither understands that his parents might get stupid ideas if he chooses to wear a pink dress some days, nor why there are two different toilets and which one he belongs in and which one he doesn't belong in.)

Oh yes, and the trans movement is 'the most anti feminist and offensive to women thing that has ever happened'.

Honestly, can you even hear yourselves? This is properly bonkers.

I sometimes think mumsnet fwr is actually a sophisticated cover operation run by the catholic church.

You have feminists so much that being told that feminism is about women, and women's safety and liberation, makes you want to join the catholic church?

Well, do that, if you cannot help it.

Or you could, you know, just choose to be an actual feminist. It is possible. Many previous trans allies have seen reason.