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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not know how to explain transgender child in DD's class

365 replies

Peaches44 · 05/07/2017 20:01

I'm sorry if this comes across offensive but I am incredibly naive when it comes to these kinds of issues.

DD has a boy in her class, they are in reception year. At the start of the year she asked if the DC was a boy or girl and I could only answer as being not sure. The mother is very quiet so I hadn't heard her refer to the child as a he or she. The name is more 'boy' but could possibly be a girls also, the child wears a mixture of girls and boys uniforms and on non-school uniform days they wear girls clothes.

DD now knows he is a boy, but he is apparently allowed in the girls toilets and DD at 4 doesn't understand why, she also said a few other boys see this boy able to go in the girls and the boys follow.

She has asked a few times why he does tis etc. and I don't know the right answer, they are likely to be in the same school year for the whole of primary so they are questions I need to answer but I don't know how.

Would the mother be offended if I talked with her about it??

OP posts:

Thread gallery

Icallbullshit3 · 08/07/2017 02:50

Ask the teacher for a meeting. I would not be happy with that explanation

Marcipex · 08/07/2017 03:18

I can second what another poster said earlier. The girls toilets were the only place we could get away from the boys harassing us. If boys were allowed in, we'd have had nowhere at all.

I had my head snapped off by a parent , when I mistakenly thought her child was a girl. At a non school event, I asked if her long haired, pink- trousers and-flowered jacket wearing child would like to join in a game.'Hes a boy' was her very annoyed response.
He watched from the sidelines as the others played. I didn't know what I should say.

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 08/07/2017 05:48

Some people have girl bits but feel more like a boy inside and some people have boy privates but feel more like a girl inside.

What does that even mean?

GahBuggerit · 08/07/2017 06:41

Hijenny, please can you tell me how you, presumably as a biological woman, feel like a woman inside?

Elanetical · 08/07/2017 06:59

I hope this doesn't happen to us when DD starts school but I am reluctantly preparing for it.

We have started to explain to her that the difference between males and females is that females can have babies like mummy did. And that's the only difference, and it would be very unfair if we stopped her from doing something just because she's a girl. We also always encourage her to speak up if she's uncomfortable about something. Hopefully this helps her to question the orthodoxy that expressing behaviour or preferences that are stereotypically associated with the gender linked to the opposite sex means you are somehow actually the opposite sex, as opposed to just being a person.

I have no idea how I will explain that loos are supposed to be sex-segregated not gender-segregated but that female rights in this regard are being ignored.

SnickersWasAHorse · 08/07/2017 08:33

Although it sounds like it's not this the in the case of the op I just wanted to share one experience as a teacher.

I had a group of parents come in one day complaining that a girl was using the boys toilets and saying that she was a boy. What was I going to do about it.
I asked for the name of the child and then explain that this child was indeed a boy. He looked like a girl because he had long hair and slight features. He had a gender neutral name. This was half way through the school year. The children in the class spent most of the year calling him her through simple confusion.

Datun · 08/07/2017 09:48

SnickersWasAHorse

I'm sure girls have been mistaken for boys and vice versa since forever. It's a misunderstanding that just needs to be cleared up. Albeit one that is probably becoming more common as people reject gender stereotypes.

The difference here is the OP has reason to think the child is a boy, who is being allowed to use the girls' bathroom. It's not a case of mistaken identity.

On a side note, as this child is coming to school in both stereotypically girls' or boys' clothes, not gender neutral clothes, I do wonder whether there is an intersex issue.

Although I can't help feeling that the more likely scenario is that this child vacillates between girls' stuff and boys' stuff, but the parents are making more of it.

HiJenny35 · 08/07/2017 11:06

Gahabuggerit please don't make assumptions about my biology as it's absolutely none of your buisness.
Most people who are transgender started with a feeling of disconnect between what they see in the mirror and how they feel inside, that thrown out their saying they were 'born in the wrong body' that the image that others see simply isn't them and the feeling of being trapped inside a outer shell that isn't reflective of their person. But that needs to be explained in language a 4 year old can understand. As for boys being allowed in the girls toilets, oh heaven forbid, it's pathetic, toilets shouldn't be placed girls are going for refuge from boys, all girls should feel perfectly safe using unisex toilets and all school toilets should be unisex. Any personal care issues happen inside the toilet and I'm confused as to why boys and girls can't wash their hands in the same in ironing, to continue to segregate girls and boys like this just creates further generations of men who know little about periods (the hidden girl issue) and reinforces men as predators.

Elanetical · 08/07/2017 11:27

all girls should feel perfectly safe using unisex toilets

That's an incredibly naive statement.

Girls absolutely should NOT feel safe using unisex toilets as the vast majority of violent crime and sexual assault is committed by (biological) males (i.e. people with a Y chromosome) who are physically stronger than females.

These are facts of biology, it makes no difference if those males identify as men, women or parsnips.

Toilets are a space where you are vulnerable because you have your pants off in a space with a lockable door and no cameras.

If we don't teach girls these lessons early in life then they can't stay safe as they get older.

Because sadly society still under-punishes males for committing these crimes and over-blames females for their vulnerability.

Datun · 08/07/2017 11:33

all girls should feel perfectly safe using unisex toilets and all school toilets should be unisex

Should?

And what if girls don't feel safe using unisex toilets?

'Should' they all still be unisex?

Datun · 08/07/2017 11:40

to continue to segregate girls and boys like this just creates further generations of men who know little about periods (the hidden girl issue) and reinforces men as predators.

What does that even mean?

Are you suggesting the only way to educate men about menstuation is to allow them to...what? I don't know that you mean? Be present? Ask a girl what the tampax machine is? Stare at a sanitary bin?

BigDeskBob · 08/07/2017 12:02

"to continue to segregate girls and boys like this just creates further generations of men who know little about periods (the hidden girl issue) and reinforces men as predators."

Men and boys can learn about periods by paying attention in biology lessons. Once men stop sexually harassing and assaulting girls and women, they will stop being seen as predators. Girls don't need to change their behaviour. And certainly don't need to share loos with boys for this to happen.

GahBuggerit · 08/07/2017 12:02

My apologies Jenny, so as a biological male (I deduce this as you seem to be upset that I presumed you are a biological woman), please could you tell me how it feels to be a woman inside?

GahBuggerit · 08/07/2017 12:06

Yea it's a weird one that datun

Because men's understanding of periods comes from pissing in the women's toilets, for sure

Datun · 08/07/2017 12:16

It's so tedious being responsible for men's education. So next time I'm washing out my moon cup in the sink and the men in there are pointing at it saying what's that then and writing down my answers, I'm just going to go prepared, with a handful of xeroxed notes. Laminated, obvs.

HiJenny35 · 08/07/2017 12:16

Christ no, a boy should never see a sanitary bin in a bathroom cubical, what would they think, you might even have to have a conversation with your male child about what a period is!!!!
Really you think 4 year olds feel unsafe in unisex toilets, you think that males in inherently predatory and that they are stronger than eachother at 4.
I think I'll try to get prezzo shut as those sickos only have unisex toilets.

HiJenny35 · 08/07/2017 12:18

And you know what if you're washing your moon cup out in a public restroom then don't because I don't want to use that sink either.

WillRikersExtraNipple · 08/07/2017 12:24

Its tough whether you want to or not, women have periods and don't have to not deal with them for your comfort.
I'll be even happier using public restrooms to do so if it has the added bonus of making you uncomfortable.

Datun · 08/07/2017 12:25

Today 12:18 HiJenny35

And you know what if you're washing your moon cup out in a public restroom then don't because I don't want to use that sink either.

God no! , you're quite right.

What was I bloody thinking? Actually using a public restroom to deal with menstruation.

Bloody women. Here's a brand new idea - why can't we be excluded from public life one week out of every month...oh wait.

Datun · 08/07/2017 12:29

And you know what if you're washing your moon cup out in a public restroom then don't because I don't want to use that sink either.

Said the person who recommended men use women's bathrooms so they can...what was it again...?

"...further generations of men who know little about periods (the hidden girl issue)"

Well. That took all of 10 minutes.

Glad to have helped.

OlennasWimple · 08/07/2017 12:34

Where shall I set up the red tents, Datun?

Jenny - you do realise that it's currently the law that schools in England (I think it's the same in Wales, Scotland and NI) provide sex segregated toilets for children aged 8 and above? So even if you think that unisex toilets are the way to go, the legal framework currently does not

Datun · 08/07/2017 12:39

Yes, a very useful suggestion OlennasWimple. Although I am going to go further.

Let's set up a space where women can be private and deal with peeing and menstruation, without offending men.

Now, what should we call that?

GahBuggerit · 08/07/2017 12:40

If you can't see that the point isn't a 4 yo BOY using the GIRLS toilets as such, it's the wider implications of what this demonstrates, then I'm actually pleased for your naivety as it means you haven't experienced having to step aside, metaphorically and physically, for the owners of the hallowed penis

Still wondering what it feels like to be a woman inside..........

nauticant · 08/07/2017 13:01

Let's set up a space where women can be private and deal with peeing and menstruation, without offending men.

Now, what should we call that?

Women again have failed to understand. Those things, being trans-exclusionary, need to be done in the privacy of their own homes. Women's toilets are to be used for their specific and correct purpose of performing femininity.

SJaNH · 08/07/2017 13:06

'Performing femininity'? What the hell does that mean?

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