Separated fathers not paying maintenance

[Pankhurst09]

My separated husband has been paying maintenance for almost 2 years. I have done everything to keep things settled for my children. I've even pushed for access, encouraged it. I eventually drew the line when he had yet another social outing on his night (we have no other childcare) and I said, no, sorry, I have something else planned. He went anyway, again, and blamed me for not seeing our children and used the fact that I had a night out as reason to stop paying maintenance for his children.

So, I have learned that;
1; I must tow the line
2; I must tow the line
3; I must tow the line

4;I can't tow the line, it's not in me to... tow the line!!!!

BUT, if I don't tow the line, here's the deal.

In the UK I feel utterly let down as the main care giver, I feel trapped and under represented and at the mercy of our outdated, misogynistic court system.

I will tell you why. I have no faith, none whatsoever in a system that should protect our most vulnerable and ensure that their stable existence remains that way.

I'm going to go on anecdotal for now as that is all I have, and it terrifies me. I'm not stupid though, I've researched the courts stance, past cases etc... to give myself a reasonable grounding of the reality but the scary thing is, it still seems to remain somewhat of a lottery! A lottery for my children and your children and their security and welfare!

I have many anecdotal stories from friends/acquaintances that all sing the same tune, "the judge wasn't interested", "hadn't read the notes". "It's all about the fathers rights". "They don't care if they leave you in financial hardship". "The children's views were not taken into consideration"

My husband walked out on me and our two children, two years ago! I was devastated, dumbfounded, on my knees! BUT I had to keep going, I had no choice. I NEVER stopped him seeing them. I was told of cheating etc... I asked for mediation which he refused. I went through the mill and so did my children despite his refusal to acknowledge it. This is where it could get messy. 2 sides to every story, of course there is. What I believe to be non negotiators are;
1; unconditional love ❤️
2; unconditional support

If both mum and dad adhere to these very simple rules the children no matter what will feel secure.

Fathers in the UK at the moment can STOP payments without warning, without recourse. That is utterly wrong. If you want unconditional access then you should be accountable. You expect unconditional love from your children, they have not asked to be in this situation therefore you should return the unconditional love... and support. Yes, go through CSA etc... BUT that takes time and a fight and results in emotional damage to both the main care giver and children. When will the system protect the children? When we all say enough is enough.

Feeling very let down. My sole mortgage application was just about completed and has been ruined as he just 'decided' to stop paying any maintenance. The system sucks and needs a complete overhaul to protect our children. Where would my children be if I just 'decided' to stop caring for or paying for them?

That's the problem with the system too, we are too busy, downtrodden and kept in our place by the way things are at the moment. It is depressing.

Quite, I thought long and hard whether to take this to appeal as quite frankly I could do without the stress and hassle, not to mention I will no doubt have to take unpaid time off work to attend a tribunal. I will now be spending my day off composing my case instead of having fun with DS (school holidays here). I have a couple of weeks holiday coming up and plan to spend some time emailing my mp, msp and any other relevant authority figures I can think of. If anyone can think of anyone in government who may be interested/have influence please feel free to post their details here.

Best of luck Lowgravity. It's rubbish that you are having to spend time away from your son to sort out a mess you should never be in in the first place. I really hope it all goes well for you. Sorry I don't have any good advice re MP's/who to contact. Hopefully someone else has. Best of luck again.

Emerald- "The CSA is a complete joke. How come in America, Australia and New Zealand fathers who don't pay maintenance can be jailed and have their passports confiscated whereas here it is a free for all? It is because the CSA is an incompetent joke."

That is really interesting. Why is the system so awful here? Why are fathers not held accountable?

Like you say I think Misogyny has a lot to answer for.

Thanks Pankhurst. I am currently writing an essay and making full use of the 'please use a separate piece of paper if neccessary'. I might even need an entire note pad! I called CMS again this morning and got a slightly more reasonable person, a woman. They have completely fucked up though because I never received notification about the changes until it was too late to do anything other than appeal. I got a letter stating 'we previously wrote to you, but they didn't and she has admitted this to me. Also been in touch with someone who thinks they can get hold of the address of the property he has purchased cash. I am not letting this go. Just have to accept this is going to take up a lot of time and energy for the time being.

I can't see why they can't requisition their houses - putting a charge on them so they can't be sold without that sum being paid. My ex does not have to pay me because he doesn't work. Nor does he claim benefits. His mum died and left him a share of a large London house, which as he is now living in Calabria, I'm guessing he managed to cash in. So according to the CSA, he owes me nothing. Because he has neither job nor benefits. ie: he is STINKING rich.

My kids have grown up in a council house. On minimum wage. One is only going on a compulsory school trip in autumn as the school managed to find a local charity to pay a grant for him to go. We have no holiday this year. Or last. Or since I can remember. My ex's entire life is a holiday. Which apparently means - he owes me nothing.

His kids are 15 and 16, as I said upthread That's 31 years money he owes me.

Yet I would be charged for them even to look into it. Not him. Not the defaulter.

I'm guessing the tory cabinet is full of deadbeat dads or why else is nothing ever done about this?

Lowgravity- any news? I have had everything crossed for you!

Joffrey- It is an awful situation and I completely agree with you. Policies made by policy makers to suit themselves. Also a disgusting situation that the onus is on the resident parent usually the mother to sort out the situation while already under an unjust amount of pressure. What is child centred about any of it?!! I don't buy any of it. Absolute bloody disgrace.

My ex, contractor, earns £12k a month pays me £250 a month for 3 kids. He is self employed and pays himself minimum wage - CMS just look at HMRC figures not his contract that I have sent them. Best friends mum, auntie and sister all work at CMS and have all said I have no chance of getting anything more if they say they are self employed - what do I do? They are 10, 11 and 12 it's so unfair but I would never let them not see him, people tell me they will understand eventually x

Oslo- I am being threatened with the self employed card too. It is disgusting that a system has nothing in place to safeguard children from this loophole. It's more disgusting that fathers would use it. Like you, I wouldn't stop contact but then also worry, what does that teach children? People also say to me that they will eventually understand too, but when is eventually? When they are fully grown with families of their own and have already missed out on the life chances that they should have been afforded had they had two contributing parents? It's a joke.

I agree with everything that's been said.
It's part of the mysoginistic society we live in.

It's so depressing Emily, I always knew it existed but it's the extent of it in this country that has shocked me.

And the very very few cases of mothers who are deliberately obstructive regarding contact are always wheeled out, when they are hugely outnumbered by mothers trying to protect their DC from violent, substance-abusing, hugely irresponsible, manipulative or sexually predatory fathers - and the enormous number of men who refuse to pay maintenance.
There are also the men who can't be bothered with contact - again, far more cases of men who have simply lost interest in their own children - and mothers desperately trying to promote contact because the children are sad and miss their father.

And what about the men who use money to control the mother of their child while the relationship is ongoing? You know, all those stories of 'is this fair' when the man is buying himself computers and motorbikes and the woman has one pair of shoes with holes in but isn't 'allowed' any money to spend on herself...

We still live in a hugely misogynistic world.

User I couldn't agree with you more. There appears to be this epedemic of these mothers who are "deliberately obstructive"? 🤔I think you hit the nail on the head with this, and, "and the enormous number of men who refuse to pay maintenance" for all the many awful reasons you have mentioned, in my situation I feel the 'maintenance' is now being used as a means of control. It is disturbing as looking back there are other very questionable behaviours from my separated husband but ones I didn't address because I thought (perhaps naively) I was protecting my children, protecting their relationship with their father. Like you say, the majority of us keep the relationship going (together or apart) because we are worried about our children being in a situation where they are "sad and miss their father"

A massive contrast to what the misogynistic world would have us believe 😡 Why, why, why are we so vulnerable? Where else in Britain is any other minority group this vulnerable? Are we even that much of a minority group? 🤔

I walked away from my abusive ex with just my car, a travel cot, few clothes and some toys. I've had £40 from him in 15 months for a new car seat. He sold everything we had when I left including his business to pay for his drug addiction. I didn't get a penny!! He then went on to benefits. I'm entitled to £7 a week for 2 children. I would rather have nothing from then give him the satisfaction.
I look at my 2 children who are growing everyday and I smile because although I came away without my possessions I broke free and no money could ever compare to them.

It's also irritating when people suggest that single mothers should just suck it up. I've heard people spout things like single mothers shouldn't go on holiday, buy new clothes, have a car, have a mortgage etc extra
I've never heard the same suggested about single fathers, ever.

I've heard people say that single mothers shouldn't have got pregnant if the end result was that they would end up single and poor.
Mysoginistic crap. People need to start asking what the powers that be will do to ensure ALL parents take responsibility for their children.

They have reassessed based on a COPY of his tax return the HE sent them.

I did my tax return this week and saved a copy. It was then perfectly possible to go back in and change every detail and resubmit. It is incompetent and negligent to rely on this as evidence of anything. I agree that maintenance should be operated by HMRC, or at least properly linked in to the information they have. It's all digital these days, how hard could it be to check against tax records?! Evasion of maintenance should be regarded as seriously as tax evasion and benefits fraud. I don't think you could easily legislate again self employed people leaving their profits in the business until kids grow up, but I bet most of them get money out using dividends and don't declare it.

I think a lot of the problem here is our sexist society. How often do we read on here of family finances where the mother's wages/share of the money are used to pay everything for the kids? Kids are regarded as the mother's problem. They don't affect a father's ability to earn or work, but they do affect the mother because the default position is that she will take care of them. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions to the rule, but statistically I'd bet the woman still does more for the kids in a significant majority of families.

As a society we all need to hold NRPs to account. I've ended a relationship with someone because I couldn't get my head round his attitude to his kids.

Jimmys mum you are the moral victor, no question but why should we live in a society where the responsibility weighs so heavily on one parent?

Emily- Exactly! The prejudice is unbelievable. Society thinks nothing of telling/expecting a woman to walk around barefoot to ensure her children have shoes, but the father? Didn't you know he is 'entitled' to start a new life/family/home and it must be in keeping with what he has been accustomed too or that would be unfair?! What about the child? What about the life they were accustomed too? What about THEM?!!!

Anathema- you are exactly right, why on earth is "evasion of maintenance should be regarded as seriously as tax evasion" I couldn't agree more.

Funny how they are so on the ball with tax, benefits etc... but an ineffective system regarding collecting and calculating maintenance still exists 🤔 and we could start a whole other thread on how they calculate that maintenance?! Seriously?! What planet is that male Tory MP living on with their children? Oh that's right, none. The mother is, they are too busy living it up with wife/family no 3.

Good on you for taking a stance and ending that relationship I would have done the same but you are right society needs to do more.

Also I went part time to look after my children. I have worked since I was 15, worked almost full time through uni and have always worked full time since, until having children! So, I will also be penalised in retirement?! What's the alternative? Why the hell is this period of time of care for your children not seen as a joint responsibility? This could be a contentious issue but in those early years, in most cases the mother is best placed to stay with the child, due to feeding etc... not all cases of course there are exceptions, but for the sake of illustrating the point I am talking about the majority. Why are we so prejudiced towards women? Why is this not more spoken about and challenged? Are the policy makers really concerned about creating a fair and just society for our children? Or are they more concerned about how an effective and fair system for calculating and collecting child maintenance might affect them and their lifestyle?

I agree with your very well-written post OP.

We got no child maintenance at all under the old CSA for 9 whole years, that's half of DD's childhood. They did absolutely nothing and were completely useless. I was on my own.

I've never put any restrictions on access. The ex just couldn't be bothered. I'm sure he was telling everyone I was making it hard for him. He lies about everything.

I think things have improved slightly with the CMS and there is a slightly better system in place now. They can actually find where people work now and are able to chase them a little bit. That's my experience. I completely disagree with the registration fee though.

I think parents that don't pay maintenance should be sent to jail. It is child abuse.

Always on these threads there is a comment about how some NRP pays in excess of CSA, access restricted.

As I have said before I have never heard any man say I don't see my kids because I prioritize my mates, new g/friend, beer, football over my kids. But we know lots of dad just drop out of contact.

Everyone knows there is a problem with self emplyed NRP..The government choose to do nothing about it because it makes no difference to them. It won't give them any more money to cut taxes for the rich.

From what I read on the previous threads..The CMS have lots of powers they never seem to use them. I am not sure why? They actively discourage there collect payment and seem to give NRP chance and chance again with direct payment.

In my experience, those Fathers that want to and willingly provide for their children are punished, those who don't care won't pay and can't be made to.

My ex was an abusive bully. He paid nothing. I tried the CSA (as it was then) a few times. However, my ex knew where we lived, where I worked and made my life hell until I called them off. I didn't know as much about emotional abuse then as I do now, and I doubt the police would have been much help as I don't think it was recognised then.

My now DH has 2 children that he was paying for when we got together. The payments were supposed to go straight from his wages. He was a low earner with a small company. He had a call from a very aggressive person from CSA saying you owe £1000 in back pay. When he queried this he was told they would explain after he paid it. He said that we didn't have the money and was told that they knew he had a credit card with that amount available and they were authorised to use the money from there and were only telling him as a courtesy. They took the money and told him his employers hadn't been paying and he should speak to them about it. They insisted they had paid it. Neither party would provide evidence to back their story and we couldn't afford a solicitor.

Sounds like nothing has changed. Bad men just continue to get away with it and good men get driven to despair. Women just continue to do their best against impossible odds.

Namechanger- absolutely awful, 9 years!!! And nothing, no penalty for the father, just, ah well, these things happen. No they bloody don't, they don't just happen, you have done the job of two parents to make things happen. Where would your children be now, where would any of our children be? I think the policy makers conveniently overlook the fact that half the nation would be in care and the other half in jail if we didn't make things happen. If it was a trade union we would have 'downed tools' a long time ago however they have us over a barrel as very very few mothers would neglect their child to prove a point/push for change. The injustice makes me so angry. It is child abuse, how it can be viewed any other way? makes me ashamed to be part of this society.

Starlight- that is a good point about access, many times I have had disagreements with ex about consistency as he has a night out/plans/etc... on his night but if I dared to change plans do something differently I am purposefully withholding access, despite the fact I've always put the children at the centre. So much so that I was so anxious and worried about their well being when he moved out if they had asked to see their dad I would have literally driven them in the middle of the night, don't know how well that would've gone down right enough if we had all actually turned up at the bachelor pad.

Big old- that is interesting to hear both sides, I haven't entered into the system yet. I fear it is where I'm headed though and it isn't a good thought. You are right about the impossible odds, something needs to change.

I also disagree with people saying you will be the one to reap the rewards when the nrp refuses to pay for their child or see them and look after them on a regular basis.
Not true.
Both myself and dcs would be substantially happier if their dad paid for them and saw them and cared for them on a regular basis.
How on earth is it better for the resident parent to have to pick up all the slack, it isn't.

There are some disgusting parents around and they should be treated the same way as those who commit benefit fraud are.

OP I agree completely but I know I will never get any more than £7 a week from him. So I'd rather not have it. If I was entitled to more I certainly would try and get it As I do struggle but £7 a week really wouldn't make any real difference to myself or my children.

It winds me up. He lives the free life, has more money than I do with 2 children and his parents send him money every week and he still moans that he can't afford to give me anything. If I can do it I'm pretty sure that he can!!!