To think that just because we have a good income we shouldn't give our children whatever they want?

[YesMadamDeputySpeaker]

My DH and I both grew up in low-income families. Thanks to the power of a good education, we both made it to university and now have a very comfortable lifestyle without needing to worry about money. We're able to take the DC on regular holidays, have a nice home, cars, etc.

Even before we actually had children, we had always pledged to give our children the sort of childhood we didn't get to have - such as taking them abroad on holiday, and making sure they have lots of nice things.

However, I've since come to realise that there is a difference between 'not having to worry about money' and 'getting everything you want because we can afford it'. As I said we had very little money when I was growing up, yet I still had a happy and extremely love-filled childhood. I've grown up appreciating hard work and the importance of school, and not taking things for granted.

DH, on the other hand, is very much of the 'you can have whatever you want' mentality. Our eldest daughter (13) wants to go on a (non-educational) school trip next year which would cost in the region of £650. DH wants he and I to pay the whole thing ourselves, thus giving her a luxury our parents couldn't. I feel like it didn't do me any harm to have to save up for things I wanted as a child - in fact, it probably made me appreciate them more - and so I suggested we pay half provided she pays the other half using savings. DH disagreed heavily.

Our younger DC don't tend to ask for much, but DD and her brother (10) constantly ask for new gadgets/clothes/toys etc. I feel terrible because we have a disposable income meaning they could have most of the things they want, and I would have loved that as a child; yet I don't want them to grow up feeling entitled and like mum and dad will always pay for everything for them.

I also work in a very rough secondary school in an area with high rates of poverty and inequality. This is perhaps another reason why I am reluctant to let my children have everything they want, when I work with young people every day who cannot afford to have food or clothes bought for them.

Finally, I feel like a total hypocrite as every time I say any of this DH points out the fact that I spend quite a lot of money on items for myself as well. I feel like such a terrible person. I just want my DC to grow up appreciating the value of money and hard work but I don't want them to not have things they want just because I didn't - I'm bracing myself for suggestions that I'm projecting my childhood feelings onto them.

Am I being unreasonable or do I have a point here? Any thoughts gratefully appreciated

Yanbu - similar situation and viewpoint for me and the dcs have access to a lot of privileges which come as perks with the jobs we have as their parents. We have a lovely home, new cars, holidays etc but they do not automatically get whatever they ask for and we discuss the value of purchases made for them (outside birthdays and Christmas)

I want them to have a strong work ethic and I think that's where it comes from. I also want them to understand that people come from all kinds of backgrounds, have different things and to be able to mix comfortably with everyone.

I'm with you for what it's worth.

I think my 13 yr old is fed up with my stories about only having one pair of shoes in yr 7 ( school shoes and those cheap plimsoles for pe.... no expensive trainers etc). We went trainer shopping yesterday and he had a £30 budget ( plenty I thought). Apparently lots of his friends parents don't mind spending £80 plus on a pair.

YANBU.

It's more than money. It's about attitudes.

Spoiled children tend to take things for granted.

I think you can have a nice middle ground where you do provide the opportunities for them that you couldn't have, but you also instill a sense of humility and an understanding that money doesn't grow on trees.

Your DH's approach is wrong IMO.

Youre both wrong

There is a nice area in the middle where they can have nice things withouy being spoilt

Totally with you.
DS16 is coming up to being able to drive. August baby so is the youngest in his year, and genuinely most of his friends are driving 65/16/66 even 17 plate cars. Paid for on the whole by mummy and daddy.

DS will be getting a little 10 year old runaround with some support for driving lessons and insurance. Yes we could afford to do what others have done. But we want him to earn and respect the car, and if we pay for it, he won't.

It's really hard

Both wrong....school trip even I would pay for.

Giving her every gadget etc she wants - agree with you.

I'd sent them on all the school trips I could, and pay for them, make them use their own money for spending money when away. I certainly wouldn't be buying them loads of 'stuff' though. Everything they need and a few things they want is good enough in my book.

You say you want your daughter to pay half for the trip out of savings. How much does she have, where did she get the money and what does she usually spend it on? This might also be a factor.

Thanks for all replies so far!

Make no mistake, I want them all to have nice things. I just don't want them to feel entitled to anything, or expect us to buy them anything we want just because we can afford it.

I want them to have respect for their things as well - but as Buckinghambae pointed out, I've found they do so less if it's something we've bought them as they think it can be replaced easily. Whereas if I had a prized possession which I'd lost or broken, there was no way in hell my parents would buy a replacement.

I couldn't ask a thirteen year old to pay for half of a school trip, that's harsh. I honestly don't understand your thought process there, I'm with your husband,

Howcer I agree with a previous poster who said you're both wrong, there is a mid ground between Oliver Twist and Rockefeller.

It is lovely to be in a position to be generous with your dc, but you do them no favours if you give them everything they can think of. You set up unrealistic expectations, and perhaps a lifestyle that will be unsustainable for them when they are financially independent.

With dd, I have done two things mainly:

• given her a monthly allowance for extras
• given her a budget for certain occasions.

I buy all her basic clothes, and pay for anything she needs that is school related. I also pay for her mobile phone. If she wants to meet a friend for a pizza, go to Starbucks, buy music online, buy makeup, etc., that comes out of her allowance. She also must pay for any 'want but not need' extra clothes / shoes once we 've bought her clothes for the season. The key for this to work, is that you have to give them enough to cover what they'd like to do within reason, but also enough so that if they need to save for a concert ticket (for example), it won't take them 6 months to do it (they could get discouraged and not bother).

On school trips, holidays, etc., I give dd a set amount of spending money (which includes a modest amount toward a souvenir) and then anything above and beyond needs to come from her savings / allowance. If she doesn't use the spending money I provide, she can keep it.

Lastly, she and her friends went to a special occasion event that required a special dress. I gave her a budget for the event that was to cover everything - her dress, shoes, dinner out before the event, etc. The amount was generous, but required her to do some savvy shopping. She found her dress and costume jewelry on sale, and saved enough that she could get herself a pedicure before the event.

Any really big and £££ items usually go on her Christmas and birthday list. She also can certainly babysit or do some other jobs to earn more money if she chooses to.

All a long-winded way of saying - be generous, but have limits. Teach them to be savvy shoppers. Teach them how to manage on a budget, and give them a chance to make wise choices by allowing them some independence and let them learn to make smart choices.

fakenamefornow she has expressed interest in getting a part time job in a local hotel (the proprietors are family friends of ours) when she turns 14.

She also had a FlexOne account where relatives put money on her birthdays and other special occasions. In addition she gets £5 pocket money a week. Sometimes she saves it and sometimes she buys small things such as sweets or jewellery.

I think there is a middle way. We are very comfortable; our kids could have pretty much anything.

They get the normal school trips but not the £2000 for 4 days in New York type ones.

They get nice clothes and shoes but not designer overpriced brands. They get lots of toys but not faddy stuff; they get phones when they go to high school, lap tops at 15 or so and no TV in room ever.

They have good bikes and equipment, they get lots of activities and experiences and opportunities to try things.
They get driving lessons and an old banger, not a brand new mini like some of their mates.
The get £5 a week in high school and £20 a week in sixth form. They have all got jobs to make their money go further.
In uniform they get their minimum loan made up to the max by us. Again they have got jobs to pay for extras.

I'm in the 'both wrong' camp.

She's 13 and it's a school trip. She's not old enough to work in a meaningful way so she can't contribute so I don't understand why you'd want her to miss out if she doesn't have to.

My train of thought over her paying for half herself are that

1. She will have a job when she turns 14, and so be earning money herself - which she can spend on whatever she wants. Therefore if she wants to go on the trip and she is earning her own money I don't see why it's unreasonable for her to put some of said earnings towards it herself.

1. If it was a purely educational trip I would have no worries about paying (unless it was the £2000 kind in NY kind, as Tinkly put it), but it's to a water park!

1. I want her to go on holiday and have a good time but I want to make sure she understands the value of working for money and not having things handed out to you for free.

As I said in my OP, though, the chip on my shoulder may play a part in reason #3, which I am willing to admit myself.

YANBU - it is an essential life lesson to learn to 'save' for nice, special items and to expect someone to buy you something 'just because they can afford it' is, in my opinion and leads to entitled, bratty behaviour.

YANBU. We are in a somewhat similar position - very grateful to have more than we need to live on, whereas DH's childhood especially was much poorer. However even though DD is only 4, my stock answer to 'can I have...' (e.g. a toy when we're at the supermarket) is no. At the moment we could comfortably afford pretty much everything DD asks for, but I really don't think that's going to help her in the long run - she'll develop an attitude of expecting what she wants all the time, and won't learn the value of things. She'll have pocket money/an allowance when she's older.

Buckinghambae that's crazy. I thought (and still think) that my parents were very generous in paying for all my lessons and tests (and I was expensive because it took me a while to learn to drive), but there was never any question of me having my own car. I did have use of the family car (singular) when it was available, and it was the same for most of my friends. Possibly tellingly, I've never owned my own car, though DH's car is as much mine as his. I have friends with teenage children now, and not one of them has bought their child a car. We aren't in a poor area (far from it) though we are urban - are you rural?

@Earlybird thank you, that was a really interesting post and I think the way you handle money with regards to your DD is a good idea. I may have to think about doing similar as mine gets older!

In terms of how much you give yours a month, is it more ££ or £££?

I wouldn't make her pay for half the trip. That seems mean. Maybe tell her she has to pay for her spending money on the trip?

You need to find the middle ground. School trips are enriching experiences, where dc make amazing memories with their peers, even if they're not necessarily educational. So, if you can afford school trips, that's great. But, that doesn't mean that they should get anything they want, on demand. That doesn't do them any good.

That's what DH suggested. I went on my first trip abroad with school when I was 17 and I did pay for the whole thing myself out of my work wages - though in hindsight I was a) older and b) my parents wouldn't have been able to afford whereas me and DH are in the position where, luckily, we can.

YesMadam - glad there were some useful ideas there.

My dd has just turned 16 so a couple of years older than yours. I give her £20 per week. It is amazing how much more economical she is when it is her own money!

And as I said, when she goes on a school trip, we figure out what she might actually need (if not all meals are included, for example), and then I give her a bit extra for a treat. But again, we're not talking big money here - usually £30 - £40. If she wants something more expensive (like the sweatshirt she just bought herself on a trip to France), she supplements with her own savings/allowance.

I have to say my DD is quite good economical with the £5 we give her - she knows that if she spends it, then she won't get any more pocket money that week.

We bought her a mid-range smartphone when she started secondary school but as it's on a contract, DH pays. I think as she gets older we will switch the account details to hers and keep it in DH's name until she's 18 and can have a contract in her name iyswim.

DS (10) gets £3 a week which is plenty as he rarely buys anything that isn't coated in sugar.

I think there is a world of difference between not being able to afford something and to be able to afford but not buy for another reason/

I think the reason to buy/not buy should be consistent. If dd has already been on every trip going then it's going to be hard for her to understand why she can't go on this one.

I'd be tempted to put an amount aside for each child to be able to dip into for trips / hobbies etc.

Sheepy nope, I'm talking about a very suburban area. not London money either. It genuinely is baffling. One kid had a brand spanking new 120D BMW, I can't fathom what the insurance was. I work in the auto industry and could get my hands on a fairly sensible priced monthly payment deal for a basic car for him but even then I think it's crazy. It's about getting them to respect what they own and have worked for it.

TO start with we were meanness personified, he has now got on our side and to give him credit is working towards it.

As for Pocket Money, DS is a bit older but gets a weekly allowance as he's on a pitiful pre-apprentice training scheme, he then works for his DGP and saves that towards a car and gets a quarterly clothing allowance. Hoping he will be on a full apprenticeship soon so will be self supporting any day now.. even still we've paid for holidays, flights to go see family next year and he's generally supported in most things whilst he demonstrates hard work.

Anything to do with education dh and I pay for. That includes school trips. It also includes university fees. (We are not in the UK so pay a €3,000 registration fee to university each year). No tuition fees to pay for.
Anything to do with life skills we have also paid for. That has included driving lessons for ds and insuring him on my car. DD will be having the same paid for.
This was what my parents did for me (and all my siblings) and dh's parents did the same for him (and all his siblings).
We have had conversations with ds about paying for himself going forward - he came to us to talk to us about it and we are in agreement with him. He is currently working and will be paying for all his own needs/wants from now on. We will not be asking him to contribute to the household budget but we have stopped his monthly allowance.