To think that just because we have a good income we shouldn't give our children whatever they want?

[YesMadamDeputySpeaker]

My DH and I both grew up in low-income families. Thanks to the power of a good education, we both made it to university and now have a very comfortable lifestyle without needing to worry about money. We're able to take the DC on regular holidays, have a nice home, cars, etc.

Even before we actually had children, we had always pledged to give our children the sort of childhood we didn't get to have - such as taking them abroad on holiday, and making sure they have lots of nice things.

However, I've since come to realise that there is a difference between 'not having to worry about money' and 'getting everything you want because we can afford it'. As I said we had very little money when I was growing up, yet I still had a happy and extremely love-filled childhood. I've grown up appreciating hard work and the importance of school, and not taking things for granted.

DH, on the other hand, is very much of the 'you can have whatever you want' mentality. Our eldest daughter (13) wants to go on a (non-educational) school trip next year which would cost in the region of £650. DH wants he and I to pay the whole thing ourselves, thus giving her a luxury our parents couldn't. I feel like it didn't do me any harm to have to save up for things I wanted as a child - in fact, it probably made me appreciate them more - and so I suggested we pay half provided she pays the other half using savings. DH disagreed heavily.

Our younger DC don't tend to ask for much, but DD and her brother (10) constantly ask for new gadgets/clothes/toys etc. I feel terrible because we have a disposable income meaning they could have most of the things they want, and I would have loved that as a child; yet I don't want them to grow up feeling entitled and like mum and dad will always pay for everything for them.

I also work in a very rough secondary school in an area with high rates of poverty and inequality. This is perhaps another reason why I am reluctant to let my children have everything they want, when I work with young people every day who cannot afford to have food or clothes bought for them.

Finally, I feel like a total hypocrite as every time I say any of this DH points out the fact that I spend quite a lot of money on items for myself as well. I feel like such a terrible person. I just want my DC to grow up appreciating the value of money and hard work but I don't want them to not have things they want just because I didn't - I'm bracing myself for suggestions that I'm projecting my childhood feelings onto them.

Am I being unreasonable or do I have a point here? Any thoughts gratefully appreciated

ktown

"It is completely abnormal and not a good example for her later on".

Why is it you see eating out and days out as abnormal? I understand that not everyone can afford them but I wouldn't say enjoying that time together is "abnormal".

Spending time with your DC, having fun and enjoying each other's company is, I believe, the most valuable gift you can give your DC and I wouldn't curb those experiences for anything. Especially since there is such a short window when they really want to do it.

Op, I think you are struggling with your own child hood mentally, you constantly refer to it. Many of us feel able to make our own parenting decisions without the " well it didn't kill me" mentality. I honesty think you have some mental health issues you need to address.

You are mean, you wish to provide the basics and no more. You give minimal pocket money and you wish to take your own child's birthday or Xmas money to pay for school trips, and try to dress them up as holidays to justify the way you wish to treat your children financially.

It's a long way from what you agreed with your husband, it's not even moving half way away from him, you wish to provide no more than the basics and make them earn it at a very young age and take their birthday and Xmas money off them, even for school trips, and your only justification is you survived it.

Honestly to me you sound unpleasant and I would never have treated my child as you wish to treat yours. And yes, I had a poor upbringing too and yes my child knows the value of money, but I wasn't punitive as you wish to be,

Like most things, it's all about balance.
I'm a total soft touch and recognised my weakness to say no so our kids get a reasonable amount of pocket money to spend/save and a little guidance /encouragement to save rather than fritter, but ultimately it's theirs to do as they wish with. I don't but much "stuff" apart from that (but do let them choose their clothes/ shoes within reason)

I do think though that it most trips /experiences are beneficial one way or another. I get your idea of helping them understand the value of money by getting them to contribute, but I think it should be an attainable amount they have to contribute.

One of the things "experiences" give you is increased social capital, which helps with future choices. I know that my hobbies of skiing and sailing have opened doors to me both career wise and personally. I am glad my parents prioritised experiences over "stuff" (they never had "nice" cars despite being high earners, for instance)

Rambling a bit as its late, but basically I would be stricter on "stuff" than on extra curricular activities etc.

I wouldn't expect a child with access to £5 per week to pay £300 for school trip. Equivalent to paying £30 000 for something if you take home £500 per week!
If you want her to contribute, I think a smaller amount is more realistic. she shouldn't have to save all her money.
I have just upped DD's weekly money from £5 per week as i realised some of the points made on here. ie she can't even go to cinema. I want her to make her own choices but on £5 per week her choice has been to stay at home.

I completely agree with not giving your dc everything they can think of - as stated earlier. Understanding and appreciating the value of money is an important life lesson. Parents don't do their children any favours when they turn them into privileged / entitled people.

But lessons must be taught with care, consideration, kindness and love. Teaching someone the value of money in the wrong way can backfire, if it comes across as overly harsh.

All this to say - absolutely don't give your children everything on a silver platter. Teach them to budget, and value how hard a person has to work to live well.

But, don't be so determined to impart this knowledge that you end up seeming tight and mean-spirited. Be generous when you can, and when it makes sense. It can be wonderful to give something 'extra' from time to time - especially as you're lucky enough to have earned that ability. But maybe there's something for you to learn: let yourself enjoy giving to them - sometimes above and beyond the basics. There can be a lot of joy in giving. Not every lesson has to be learned the hard way.

Didn't mean to preach. Sorry about that.

This discussion has prompted me to think about how I've got some lessons to learn too.

YABU. I think it's very harsh to make a child pay for a school trip.

It's almost as if you resent them having the lifestyle that you didn't have. What a shame.

Being spoilt is not about money or about how many possessions you have, it's about expectation and demands.

We aren't wealthy but we are comfortable enough in the great scheme of things and certainly in relation to our own childhoods.

I've brought my boys up to appreciate what they have and to realise that there are limits. So if they wanted something when they were younger they had to wait till payday, or put it on a Birthday or Christmas list, or save up for it depending on what money was available at the time.

I've taught them to be thrifty, to sell old to buy new, to look for bargains in order to get what they want at a smaller cost.

I rarely say no to them, if we can't afford something we look for ways to get it cheaper, or ways of earning more money such as doing a car boot sale etc or they just wait until we can afford it.

Now they are older they shop wisely, even if it's my money they are shopping with, they are experts at researching and finding bargains and are good at saving for what they want. They trade or sell unused items to get newer versions.

They are always grateful, have always been undemanding and have never assumed that they can have anything they like without some sort of discussion. It is an absolute pleasure to gift them treats or surprise them with something.

You don't have to say no constantly to teach your child a lesson. And I absolutely would pay for the school trip.

What do you mean by spoilt?

I was buying my rapidly growing dc2 trainers, there were some at one cost point and another pair that I felt I'd sleep better buying for her, so I bought the more expensive pair.

I expect decent manners from my children, to value other people and let them get a word in edgewise.

The material stuff does not make them spoiled. I think most children who act spoilt are neglected in one way or the other.

It's almost as if you resent them having the lifestyle that you didn't have. What a shame.

It does read like that. After a rubbish childhood nothing spurred me on in adult life than the fact that i wanted my children to have a completely different one.

Buying them things doesn't make a chid spoilt, it's about manners and behaviour. Most adults buy what they like without ending up spoilt.

Bluntness - you really do live up to your name. Whilst you are perfectly entitled to your own opinion, and if you wish to believe I am 'mean' and 'unpleasant' then so be it (though I think you'd find plenty who disagree, including my children and partner), I would disagree.

I don't think I give 'minimal pocket money' - as I've previously said, there is no need to give any more as: we live in a place where there is no cinema or any decent shops, we pay for her phone contract, clothes, and necessities (shampoo, skincare, sanitary items, etc), and she never needs to take public transport. I'd like to ask how much pocket money is seen as acceptable then, if £5 is not adequately sufficient?

In response to a pp stating that their daughter has to stay at home because she gets the same amount of pocket money - mine is rarely at home, and has a better social life than I do.

I never said I wanted to make her pay for the trip out of her own birthday or Christmas money - I said when I talk about 'savings' that is what I partly mean, and so if she wants to go on the trip, and we do decide to make her pay for a fraction herself, then that is what she could potentially use. It's not the best use of the money in my opinion, but it's her money to do as she wishes with.

Oh, and I don't resent my children for having a childhood I never had.

My childhood was amazing. I was deeply loved and cared for. My children have the same. The only difference is we have a lot more money than I did back then - and I don't want that to lead them to become spoiled, entitled brats.

Both myself and DH are very strict about manners. And I have no mental health issues - not really sure what me apparently 'needing to address' them has to do with anything, especially as there is nothing to address.

I didn't see it as preaching Earlybird, you raised some valid points and have given me some food for thought. Thank you.

Op money and giving your children 'things' doesn't lead to spoiltness. It sounds like you are raising your kids well - relax.

Thank you Honey

OP I think you've got a bit of unfair stick on here - I don't think you sound mean but balanced. If you are providing the necessities unstintingly and it sounds as if you are then educating your children in the value of money and the need to save up from time to time is a good thing. Like a lot of pps I would spend on experiences rather than stuff - if there is a good experience in this trip then it would be worth paying for it. That doesn't mean your dd gets it for nothing. Have you thought of making her earn some of the cost by extra jobs around the house - perhaps being responsible for the cooking one day at the weekend, doing a basket of household ironing a week etc. (Maybe you have friends and neighbours who might be happy to pass off some of those jobs too). All good life skills and she would be learning time management. She could also be expected to save up from her pocket money towards her spending money.

But keep on teaching them the value of money and good manners - that is far better and kinder in the long run than buying them everything they want and ending up with bratty and entitled kids.

Thank you londonmummy. I really like the idea of getting her to do extra jobs in return for a bit more money, actually - plus it has the added benefits of helping her learn skills like cooking and taking care of her clothes and means me and DH get a break one night or load of laundry a week!

Blunt I think your response was pretty rude.

We're poor. DD would probably go on this trip, but it would be paid for by relatives.

I think teaching your DC the value of money is vital, and you're going about it completely the right way.

Hmm. We don't give any allowance to our children.
However they can earn by looking after the younger ones. We pay generous market rates!
I'd rather give them opportunity to earn than just give them the money.
We aren't very materialistic so having stuff isn't really a thing here.the children know we could buy more up to date stuff - one of mine was teased by a friend as they had a merc and yet we had old cars. It helped then to let her know we could buy a merc - just aren't interested. I think it's important to let your children know you are secure financially.

We rate experiences more - and pay fir those so I wouldn't say no to a school trip even if it didn't appear to have educational benefit.

Our eldest is in y7. There is a ski trip next winter for £850+. He was keen & its the kind of thing we would have loved to have done in high school. We said we could manage it at a push but explained it was equivalent to renting a holiday cottage for all of us in one of the half term breaks or a significant chunk if our summer family holiday. When he had a sense of equivalence/comparative value, he said he'd prefer that we used the money for us all to go away together.

I don't think you sound mean OP, quite level headed and you don't want spoiled children, but providing clothes, shampoo and sanitary items for a 13 year old girl, is what you should be providing!

I do think it's mean to expect her to stump up some cash for a school trip though.

I was bought upwith well off parents. I had a pony, skiing holidays and was bought a brand new car when i was learning to drive.

However that said, my mum made sure i wasnt spoilt. For example i used to have ro do chores round the house to earn my pony's livery every week. The rate of pay was somewhat ridiculous eg £ 10 for cleaning up after dinner but i had to do it every night on my own and it included sweeping the floor polishing the worktops etc.

Some of my friends didn't have to do any chores and i felt hard done by but it really made me appreciate just how much i loved my pony.
Similarly when i was older i had to pay rent to my parents from my salaey. Turns out they saved it for me but i didn't know that at time. So I was still being taught responsibility.
I think not paying for a.school.trip.is a bit mean.a more realistic amount would be for your dd to pay 10%