To think that just because we have a good income we shouldn't give our children whatever they want?

[YesMadamDeputySpeaker]

My DH and I both grew up in low-income families. Thanks to the power of a good education, we both made it to university and now have a very comfortable lifestyle without needing to worry about money. We're able to take the DC on regular holidays, have a nice home, cars, etc.

Even before we actually had children, we had always pledged to give our children the sort of childhood we didn't get to have - such as taking them abroad on holiday, and making sure they have lots of nice things.

However, I've since come to realise that there is a difference between 'not having to worry about money' and 'getting everything you want because we can afford it'. As I said we had very little money when I was growing up, yet I still had a happy and extremely love-filled childhood. I've grown up appreciating hard work and the importance of school, and not taking things for granted.

DH, on the other hand, is very much of the 'you can have whatever you want' mentality. Our eldest daughter (13) wants to go on a (non-educational) school trip next year which would cost in the region of £650. DH wants he and I to pay the whole thing ourselves, thus giving her a luxury our parents couldn't. I feel like it didn't do me any harm to have to save up for things I wanted as a child - in fact, it probably made me appreciate them more - and so I suggested we pay half provided she pays the other half using savings. DH disagreed heavily.

Our younger DC don't tend to ask for much, but DD and her brother (10) constantly ask for new gadgets/clothes/toys etc. I feel terrible because we have a disposable income meaning they could have most of the things they want, and I would have loved that as a child; yet I don't want them to grow up feeling entitled and like mum and dad will always pay for everything for them.

I also work in a very rough secondary school in an area with high rates of poverty and inequality. This is perhaps another reason why I am reluctant to let my children have everything they want, when I work with young people every day who cannot afford to have food or clothes bought for them.

Finally, I feel like a total hypocrite as every time I say any of this DH points out the fact that I spend quite a lot of money on items for myself as well. I feel like such a terrible person. I just want my DC to grow up appreciating the value of money and hard work but I don't want them to not have things they want just because I didn't - I'm bracing myself for suggestions that I'm projecting my childhood feelings onto them.

Am I being unreasonable or do I have a point here? Any thoughts gratefully appreciated

We're comfortable financially but my three DC definitely don't get everything they want, especially when it comes to electronic gadgets - one family laptop, one family iPad, eldest DS just got his first phone age 11, no PlayStation or Xbox.

However, I would without a doubt pay the full amount for the school trip. Educational or not.

Like I said I think some of it is the whole 'chip on shoulder' thing - for both me and DH. We just respond to that in different ways.

We pay everything to do with school (uniform, dinner money, music tuition, sporting equipment, small local trips and extra-curricular clubs and activities). Last year we bought DD a very pricey flute, as she is extremely talented and practises hard on it - but it's things like expensive trainers and gadgets we don't want to automatically give them.

Rethinking it, does getting her to pay a smaller amount herself seem fair? Say £125, which is roughly a quarter?

I think you also need to consider your dc's situation. If your family lives in an upmarket neighbourhood or your dc attend private school, their 'frame of reference' is probably different than how you grew up because of their surroundings. You and dh have placed them in those surroundings.

While I don't think you have to 'keep up' with their peers, it would be easy for them to feel deprived (relatively speaking!) if you are one of the few frugal families (especially if you are 'frugal by choice' and not out of need). I think you are doing the right thing by finding a middle ground of providing, but also giving them responsibility.

While you certainly don't want to give them everything they can think of, you also want then to fit in with their peer group (especially important at this age, I think).

And fwiw, I have mixed feelings about having them do paid work while in school. Fine, if it is in the summer holidays. But, during the school year, I consider it dd's 'job' to do extremely well in school. If she wasn't academic, I might have a different view. And, I must also say, that we are fortunate enough to be able to make that choice. It would likely be different if we were on a very tight budget.

She doesn't have a job (yet) and gets £5 per week pocket money, is that right? So she'd need to save all her money for 25 weeks (nearly 6 months) to go on the trip? Still seems v harsh to me!

I would pay for a school trip.

Thanks Earlybird. We don't live in an upmarket neighbourhood (though it's by no means the opposite) and DC go to state school. Compared to other kids in their classes our DC are on the 'high' end of the scale; certainly compared to their cousins they are.

DH and I are very open with them about money and our finances. My parents weren't, perhaps for obvious reasons. But we're also very clear that it's not acceptable to ask anyone about their financial situation, whether it's 'good' or 'bad', or to bring up ours.

I started working at 15 purely because I wanted some spending money of my own. By the time I left school I was working three jobs. It was exhausting and I've warned DD about the responsibilities of having a job but she is insistent she wants one.

Pickerel that's true at present, but once she starts working she'll not have to save as much and she also has birthday and grandparent money.

Thanks Pengggwn - is £5 frugal? it's about the same as my brother and sister give their children of similar ages.

I'd pay for the trip, and have your dd provide the spending money. She will have to work and/or dip into her birthday money to manage it. She will learn a lesson about money without being given a hill that seems too high to climb.

I wouldn't be surprised if the £5 was frugal comparatively with peer group

I think spoiling is more to do with attitude than 'stuff'. We were in the fortunate position of being able to afford most things when the DCs were young and we still help them out now they're adults but they definitely don't take it for granted and have always been very appreciative.

I think you have a point, Madam - if it was an educational trip, then it would be fair that you pay, but essentially it's a jolly with her mates which the school just happen to be organising.

If she was going away with a friend and parents you'd probs expect a contribution?

If she really, really wants to go, then she'll be happy to save.

Making sure your children have a lovely childhood does not giving them everything.

And ya boo sucks to DH saying you buy things for yourself - you're a grown up, you can buy yourself Dave Grohl whatever you like!

Very hard to get the balance of giving without them ending up spoilt or unappreciative.
My ds's and most I know are a bit unappreciative.

Say you tell your DD that she must pay £125 towards the trip, and as a direct result of this she decides not to go. She doesn't want to spend such a high proportion of her savings on it. All her friends go and their parents pay. Your DD feels a bit sad and left out.

Would you think "good, she's learnt something from that" or would you feel bad? If the latter, then I think you need to re-think.

I am with the don't make her pay camp..My DS is saving for some trainers he wants because he doesn't need them..A school trip I pay for.

I don't have an issue saying no to something in a shop..Or somthing he wants in a sop..I might say put something towards it. then find if he really wants it.

My son has just come back from camp ( he is younger) but the experiences .. not just the acitivites, the managing without me, peer friendships is so invaluable to him..

I am in the same mind frame than you OP. I was myself raise with appreciating the value of money, even though my parents were well off, and I've done the same with my kids.

In terms of school trip, I would never expect my kids to pay or contribute, however, they've known since starting Y7 that I wouldn't pay for the big ski trip or the trip to NY. My reasoning was that if I was going to pay so much into a holiday, I would want it to be a family trip and secondly because these are way too expensive for what they are.

Both DD and DS have always been cool about it. Last year, DD's class went to NY for 4 days, she didn't. She was fine with it as she agreed that she thought it as too expensive for what they were going to do. As a surprise though, I took her and DS to NY before going on a cruise from there. They were over the moon and she said it was much better than going with her class as they were much more limited with what they could do. For instance, we went to see a hockey game which they loved which she wouldn't have done with her class.

Maybe I'm lucky or maybe it is the fact that I've always spoken to them about money, budgeting and not buying to impress, but they've never been interested in the latest gadgets. They want things for what it does, not to make their friends envious. Their phones are the 2/3 year old version, they don't have ipads, and the more I've ever spent on clothes for them is probably £40. They've never asked for more.

DD has had a week-end job for 6 months now, could go and buy what she wants, but all her purchases have been very reasonable and driven by need.

My parents always told me that everything is more enjoyable when you've earned it rather than got it for free, as pride to have accomplish somethings is priceless. They were very right and is the principle I hope to have passed on to my children.

£5?! She's hardly rolling in it!

Mid range phone?

With all due respect I can't see how that is spoiling her.

How you can say her school trip isn't educational is beyond me - is experiencing other cultures not educational?

How about paying for the trip and asking her to save the spending money?

if you don't want your child to go on a (non-educational) school trip because you don't think the other aspects such as social skills, developing awareness and self sufficiency, partaking in activities that further self esteem, team building, relationships etc isn't worth it - then don't let her go.

If on the other hand you think having that experience may make her a more well rounded individual them let her go.

Your daughter is 13. A child. You really expect a school age child with no income to be paying for school trips?

As we are all waxing lyrical with the anecdotal hard-one-by stories - at her age I had child allowance made over to me to spend or save as I saw fit. Perhaps you could try that?

incidentally, your friends with the hotel - what hours will they be employing your daughter, and what's the hourly rate? Because she's open to exploitation and sub 16s are not covered by NMW.

www.gov.uk/child-employment/paying

www.gov.uk/child-employment/restrictions-on-child-employment

£5 a week. Frugal? Christ on a bike that's not even a cinema ticket or a game of bowling. That not frugal, it's mean.

We could afford to buy our kids anything they ask for. We don't.

They go to private schools and we pay for school trips (but the £1500 New York trip had to have a Christmas present sacrificed for it.). We buy them Android contract phones. Not top handsets. They have an allowance - maxing out at £60 per month in the sixth form. They have a four year old Up they can learn to drive in and use afterwards between them and we pay for lessons.

They key I think is teaching them to budget. They have had an allowance since they we five. So

... oops...every "can I have" as a small child was met with "yes, do you have enough money?" They usually decided not to buy it! As a PP said, it's funny how much more frugal they are when it's their own cash 😄

I think the critical thing to remember with kids is that they can't earn their own money.

I have NO objection to

'I'm sorry, but we just can't stretch to that.'

'Honestly, I'm not comfortable with you having such an expensive item - but I'm prepared to get you or '

'Yes, you may have that but you need to save your pocket money for it and if you want extra pocket money you can do X chore.'

'Yes, but for your birthday/Christmas.'

I think it's fine to say no, not right now, no but you can have ... but I don't like no, just because, if that makes sense?

SmileEachDay thank you! I like your point about the holiday with friends. That is essentially what this trip is, albeit one with teachers on it too.

let's not forget DH spends a small fortune on Cuban heels and ugly beige ties himself..

Pickerel I would obviously feel sad - but she's mature and responsible enough to make her own decisions. £125 would only be five weeks' worth of pocket money anyway, and that's without potential work/additional savings.

Starlight you're right, the peer relationships etc. aspect is extremely valuable. I agree with your 'saying no in shop and putting £ towards' (provided they really want it).

£5 pocket money and a mid range phone hardly makes for a spoilt child.

We've paid for all school trips as see it as part of the education whether or not it's directly related.

I'm with your DH in that if he had little in childhood I can see why he would want to indulge them. They only get one childhood so may as well enjoy it to the max.