To want a daughter so very much

[seaotterly]

I have a DS, who is 18 months.

I am desperate for a girl.

It is putting me off TTC another as I would feel so awful as secretly I don't want another son.

I know im being unreasonable

s I said earlier in the thread though, with daughters, you tend to have a lot of deep meaningful chats with them, and lunchtimes out, coffees, daytrips, spa days, trips to the hairdressers, and movie nights together, but with a son, although it's possible to have an equally good relationship with him; your experiences with a son is not the same as with a daughter. The relationship is just not the same.

I don't have that kind of relationship with my mum. In fact I can think of nothing worse. I hate spa days, haven't had my hair cut in 4 years, and fall asleep in the cinema.

This is why women get this idea of the mother/daughter relationship.

Why don't you do those thimgs with a son? Because it's not "expected". Stereotyping is insidious and people really can't see past it.

If you ask any woman the following question: "if you could only have one child, which you prefer a son or a daughter?" Most women would choose a daughter.

Daughters are generally more loyal to their mother than sons. Women of only boys won't like that, but it tends to be true in most cases. I can easily see myself taking care of my mother if she were to become ill in her old age, but my brother just wouldn't think or care about offering help, keeping in touch etc.

I think people forget that although we are all individuals, men and women ARE very different. And no, not all of it is how male/females are socialised.

One of the many reasons why I won't be having children, is because I'd be heartbroken to never have a daughter. I won't take that risk, because there is a possibility that if I had only sons (just my luck!) I would resent them in some way and feel like I hadn't fulfilled my wish of motherhood.

If you ask any woman the following question: "if you could only have one child, which you prefer a son or a daughter?" Most women would choose a daughter

That's your opinion and bias. I think most women would say "I don't mind, I'm interested in a healthy baby not what genitals it has".

Although if you are talking worldwide the preference would be very much for males for social and economic reasons.

And Toby, don't extrapolate your personal experience to everyone, its very twatty. Just because your brother wouldn't look after his mother doesn't mean other men don't. They do.

Toby

You are assuming that most women share your prejudices. Maybe they don't

I think tobythecat wins the prize for today's biggest crock of shite on mumsnet. Congrats

I can easily see myself taking care of my mother if she were to become ill in her old age, but my brother just wouldn't think or care about offering help, keeping in touch etc.

And is this because he has testicles, or because somehow, you have been raised to think of looking after your mother in old age as something that's likely to fall to you, while your brother has been raised to think that parental ties and responsibilities are not his concern, and that staying in touch with his mother is not something he might reasonably be expected to do?

I think people forget that although we are all individuals, men and women ARE very different. And no, not all of it is how male/females are socialised.

And you know this because you have brought up male and female children without subjecting them to any form of gendered socialisation? Oh, hang on, you say you are not having a child because you'd be so heartbroken not to have a daughter, which is (a) both one of the nuttiest things I've read on here and (b) suggests you're projecting like crazy.

I'm sorry your brother isn't much cop at maintaining relations with your mother, but don't project your own disappointments and entrenched gender preference onto the rest of the world. And go and read some Cordelia Fine.

Op I get you after 2 lovely lads I wanted a dd and got twin dds.

Lots of prejudice and personal experience clouding judgments here but for me it's about getting on with each child individually and valuing them as individual people of either sex.

Ds1 we talk space and science
Ds2 we talked sport
Dd3 we talked films and books
Dd4 it's love island and makeup tips

Treat them and cherish them as individuals and you will have them for life.

Get on with my dils well too by this method

OP, it sounds to me as though what you really want is a best friend. And while it's true that some mothers and daughters think of each other as best friends, that is certainly not always (often?) the case. You can't have a child with the expectation that he or she would fill that role for you. You have to be prepared to be their parent, whatever their personality and needs, not only if they meet certain expectations of yours.

So, I think probably the best thing right now is for you not to be trying for another baby, unless or until your attitude changes. And in the meantime, find an actual best friend?

My mum always wanted a boy and then after a while she wanted a daughter. She wanted the mother daughter bond. We don't get on, fight quite a lot. I have a daughter and really hope it doesn't end up like me and my mum

I don't know any grown men who go on holiday with their mums or weekends away whereas I do know women who do

My brother does! All the time. And he's married. Sometimes wife comes too, sometimes she sees her own family then. Depends on where they are going.

And I don't, because while I love my mum I can't do more than about three days in her company without us having a major falling out.

I'm planning regular mum and son holidays once my little boy gets a bit older - there's loads of stuff I want to do with him that my husband isn't interested in (skiing, camping, trekking - my husband only really likes beaches and city breaks). I'd take a daughter too if she was into it, but I'm really looking forward to having an adventurous son to play with.

I don't know any grown men who go on holiday with their mums or weekends away whereas I do know women who do

And what with you knowing everyone in the universe, your experience must be the absolute norm?

Sashkin

I agree

People talk as if how relationships were in their generation are how it is and how it will always be.

Our generation is bringing up its children differently.

I have two boys and two girls. They are still small but all so compleately different! it's the personality not the gender that makes them who they are (I think).

I always thought to myself when I was pregnant, you will have whoever is meant to come.

Plus just think about this, it's a dog fight just to get conceived, just to beat the millions of other swimmers - all that stuff. So then I think, good on you (whoever you are) you did it! Again - they fought to be the one to live so be it boy or girl it doesn't matter.

Having said that you feel what you feel and it's not wrong.

notknown
I agree with what you said. About girls being easier to manage quieter Etc until they hit teens perhaps. But then they go back to being 'normal 'again

I don't have dd, this is my experience of family and friends.
I have 3 ds who of course I love.
Every time I've longed for a daughter. Of course I've forgotten this the minute they were born and never gave it a minutes thought after.
I would love a dd. I'm happy with the boys that I have but I would like a girl as well. I would like another baby full stop and be happy if it was a boy but I can't pretend I wouldn't be even happier if it was a girl.
Relationships with adult daughters are different. My sister and I,although we clashed,got on well with out mother. Did loads together. I'm very girlie too and I can't imagine any of my son's doing any of the things I like when they are older. A daughter might not either?but I think there's a better chance.
Really i think it's nice to experience and be blessed with both. That's an ideal I suppose.

Hi OP, I can understand what you are craving for. I did enjoy a lovely relationship with my mum, but think that was also just "us", the characteristics we shared made us fight! X

Can you afford to do gender selection?

Being a woman for better or worse is your lived experience and having a daughter taps into that.

I think this point, made by Kerala, is very astute. I too really understand where the OP is coming from. I would have described my desire for a daughter as more to do with wanting to replicate the best bits of my upbringing as a girl, in combination with mitigating as best I could what was sexist and limiting, in order to give a daughter the start in life I could have had but didn't. In that sense, I might have been treating my daughter as a mini-me, which might not be a very healthy impulse (and I'm sure I'll get flamed for it here) but which is a very common theme in parenting and unavoidable to some degree. But Kerala puts it better.

I also think the concept of 'family balance' is a commonly accepted one, and the OP is getting an unfairly hard time for publicly saying what many, many people feel privately.

I have 3 sons and like writerwannabe remember feeling devastated when I found out DC3 was also a boy, at my 20/40 scan. It is true that for anyone experiencing involuntary childlessness that must seem self-indulgent in the extreme, but one feels what one feels and the OP is entitled to feelings too. Like writerwannabe, I look at all my sons now and can't imagine life without them. I never stopped wanting a girl, and did try for another baby in the hope of having one after all, but it wasn't to be. My feeling, OP, is that though you may never lose the longing for a daughter, your love for any subsequent son you have will still be very much there. I would have that second baby if I were you.

I agree with notknown and Iusedtobecarmen. someone on mumsnet it's common for men to holiday with their mothers but I've never seen it or heard of it happening in my entire life.

And there's no point saying that it's about how you raise your kids. Society socializes your kids. The only way to keep them away from gender norms is to raise them in a cult. They are going to pick up gendered socialization and they will likely follow it. "it's all different now" = no it isn't. In fact, gen z are actually polling as much more conservative than gen y. Every generation creates a backlash.

The funny thing is that a lot of people here are angrily refuting the OP and talking about their poor relationships with their own mothers and how they are close to their own young sons and how it'll be "different". No offense but call me when they're grown up and you are warring with their DILs. I doubt it'll be so peachy then.

Wow rolopolovolo how is that supposed to help the OP? So unless she has a daughter she is doomed to a life of loneliness and 'warring' with DILs eh?

rolopolovo

I don't think anyone's displayed any anger as such.
No offence taken, but you have no greater evidence about what our relationships will be like with our sons than your own assumptions. Maybe it's women like you, who have little faith in other women, who create poor MIL/DIL relationships

Beelzebop, gender selection of embryos is illegal in the UK (unless done for medical reasons, i.e. x-linked genetic diseases).

Secretbiscuits NotYoda

Better to lie and make claims about daughters being worse even though every single study shows otherwise? You have one off anecdotes and I have more anecdotes (plus all of mumsnet's threads) and actual studies backing me. Why not google paternal and maternal grandparents and come back and school me?

And I have no faith in women? Most of the women on this thread are insisting that daughters are difficult to raise and worse than sons.

I'm sorry people had crappy mums and birthed sons but we can't all pretend that mother-daughter relationships are shit to suit your low self esteem!

rovopolovo

You give your son away if you want. You allow your son to emotionally distance himself if you want. You have already decided he won't go on holiday with you. You have probably made up your mind about your relationship with your grandchildren.

You and only you are rejecting your adult son. Of course he will not need to spend time with you because you have already made his mind up for him.

I don't know my future dils yet but I love them already because my sons love them. I love my sons and will do what it takes to maintain close loving relationships with them both. I would say the same if I had daughters.

I feel so sad for all those little boys whose mothers have already decided what the future holds and placed the emotional blocks in the way.

I have a dd (10) and a ds (18)and love them both equally of course but in my personal experience boys are MUCH easier than girls. Dd can be an absolute nightmare at times and in all honesty if I'd had her first I probably wouldn't have had anymore kids. Just be careful what you wish for