To be infuriated by this (school related!)

[ChippaChoc]

I am just about to send an email out to my DCs class to invite them to an event (the parents) via 'classlist'. This is an event for all parents (and DCs). Classlist is the way that parents and the PTA are supposed to communicate about any events, parties, social stuff outside of the normal school day but is also used most days to remind parents about things happening In the classroom too (e.g. Forest school days, sports day) which kids need kit etc for.

There's 30 parents on the list, not one is a father / male. I can't believe that still in 2017 when most of the parents at my DCs school work, plenty of them full time, it's only Mums that are on the school comms list. It has massively annoyed me. I know it won't change anything, but it just feels we are so far away from an equal load in terms of parental responsibility I can't see it will ever change. The class list sign up went out to all parents earlier this year (there's approximately 54 emails on that list, mums and dads) and low and behold only the Mums have signed up to receive communications regarding event / parties / anything outside of the formal school comms. I wasn't involved in that sign up admin process.

Off to hassle my DH about why he isn't on it now (I thought he was!)

You wouldn't have to do your husband's job, you could do something you liked, just like your DH does.

There are several assumptions there. Actually I do like socialising, so I do the school events. Because I like it.

And my DH hates his job, loathes it. But he is good at it so carries on. If I did not want to do the school stuff then he could do it if he had to. But what is the point of making him do it just to prove a point?

YAabsolutelyNBU: OP this is yet more "wifework" where women/mums pick up this admin type work for the home, almost 100%. Organising the kids in every aspect of their lives, until there is a divorce and dear dad suddenly telling the courts how involved he is. And funnily enough he is not, yet they believe him.

I agree with PP - this sort of stuff is what holds women back in other parts of life. Unrecognised, unrewarded grunt work.

Tanvi, this bugs the fuck out of me too. Our school has the role of "form mum" which infuriates me as it should be "class parent". Luckily at the secondary school they are much more forward thinking and there are many dad class parents.

All those posters who are infuriated by this, are you or your dh on the list?

For those who say my DH wouldn't have a clue about the school issues - why is this, particularly in families where both parents work. Is your DH not capable of organizing sports kit, party invitations, school events etc.

Yanbu OP, and I speak as part of the problem myself. I made an hilarious joke last night as PTA were asking people to bake for the summer fair "what cake are you making, DH?"
The problem is dads wouldn't care, so most of the extra/fun stuff just wouldn't happen. Like if women stopped ironing, and organising children's parties, clothes would no longer be ironed and children would have no parties to go to (actually, that sounds kinda idyllic...). Like housework really, the one who can be arsed has to do the work.

Does he have a job outside the home? If my DH even hinted that he couldn't organise PE kit on the right day, I would remind him he runs a business.

And he was on the PTA for 5 years.

YANBU, if my maths is right there's a 0.000000000931323 probability of this happening where there is a choice of two equal events x 30.

But yeah, people can think it's just how families like to organise nothing to do with sexism . I have to arrange everything because DD's dad decided he'd rather be able to go out drinking than be with his family, it's definitely not my choice, I'm exhausted and have little life of my own other than work and DD.

If it wasn't universally accepted that this stuff is women's work then men would sign up. If only for form's sake- they woildn't want the other dads seeing them opting out.

I think people are reading far too much into this. My name is contact for one of our kids schools and husband's is listed for the other. But this isn't class list, this is the proper emergency contact. I don't do any home admin, he does the lot. I don't even know who we pay for gas or electric. So being on a silly class list is definitely not indicative that all women do all the work and dad's do nothing. Perhaps dad's are smarter tho because class lists really are silly. I can just see the conversation now "who shall we put down for the class list contact?" Dad...err not me....mum;, oh all right, I will do it.

So men opt out and women then feel forced to do it Mumzy?

We don't have class lists here, thank goodness, I don't think I could deal with that (but I would sign up anyway because I wouldn't want dd to miss out if that's the system). Dd's school let us have as many emergency contacts as we like, dh is first, then our cm, then me, because I'm further away and less able to leave work quickly. But they prefer only one number per child to send school texts because it's cheaper for them -guess who that is? That's right, me. And I'm the only one who reads the newsletter each week and finds out when sports day, etc is, even though dh is on the list because I put him on the list too when I signed up I also get all the texts about play dates, know when swimming lessons are, what she's doing at brownies, etc because dh doesn't care so much about that sort of thing and I don't want dd to miss out.

On the other hand, I opt out of cooking, washing up and most of the laundry. When I do the weekly shop he has to write me a list (and tell me not to go off list too much ) because that's not in my half of the responsibilities for the household, it's his.

childmaintenance - viewing it as unrecognised, unrewarded grunt work is the problem. Either it is worthwhile or it isn't. Two parents arguing over who has to do it, because they both think it's boring and crap and pointless is just shite for all concerned. If more women recognise the value in turning up to school plays, Brownies, school fairs, ensuring their kids go in with the right equipment for Forest Schools, etc, than men, then it's the fucking stupid, crappy attitude that it's unrewarded, unrecognised grunt work that is the problem, not the fact that fewer women view it that way. Why mimic a lousy attitude to life?

LOL at the number of posts which exactly prove your point, OP.

I work f/ t , DH works f/t and we take equal and joint responsibility for all the headspace and workload of school, childrens' health, childcare, everything.

As an employer myself I am exasperated by the number of posts and threads on MN that assume that women are the first and only call when a parent is needed to collect a sick child.

It's interesting that very few men ever volunteer for PTA things- but amazingly manage to find the time to be governors. Because being a governor is important.

We get men volunteering for PTA things, but it tends to be running the barbecue, playing beat the goalie, driving the miniature steam train, or building and painting the stocks. Less enthusiasm for designing posters, making cakes and doing the face painting, tattoos and nails. So much still runs along gender lines in schools - you just have to look at the party invites (lots of Princess parties for girls and laser parties for boys) you have to ask who is more at fault for the continued extreme gender stereotyping, if it's women organising these things for their children.

I find that - generally- men will offer to run the bar/BBQ/football as long as they're not involved in the tedious admin of figuring out quantities and buying the booze, or setting the prices & writing the price list, or organising the bread rolls and butcher delivery, or coming to the meeting that determines a football themed activity would be good.

Happy to turn up on an event by event basis and volunteer for an hour or two, but not stick their hands up for being on the committee who does all the boring admin. Also, it's usually the husbands/partners of someone on the committee. Don't think I've ever seen a father volunteer off their own bat without the woman in the background somewhere.

It is societal- all those posters who don't mind that schools "sometimes" mess it up and call the wrong contact, just look at example after example on this thread. If you filled in a form saying the father was contact no.1, there's really no possible excuse for school to repeatedly call the wrong person if not that there are expectations ingrained somewhere that mean the office person calling is choosing to override what the computer screen says.

Generally, it's a female office person making the mistake, too, NoSquirrels - what with their job being admin... To be fair, I bet it isn't always that they called the mother first - just as often that the man didn't answer the phone!

It's amazing, from a long list of contact details provided to schools by parents, how many of the numbers are actually incorrect, out of date, or just not answered because the parent was "in a meeting" so chose to switch their phone off altogether. If you've wasted 20 minutes before, ploughing theough numbers, it probably is tempting to pick on the one that is more reliable in actually answering their phone.

roundabout most posters on this thread say that they've been called in preference to their partners, repeatedly. So not they're working their way down the list, even - that would be excusable/understandable.

Society shapes expectations. I do think a lot of women also have a lot to answer for, yes, in the same way there are plenty of "good guys" who fight for things to be more equal. Society is made up of 50% men and 50% women. We ALL have a duty to recognise the gender bullshit and act to rectify ingrained expectations.

It's appalling that no men are signed up - but their data protection is shit, too. How do you even know that it's all the mums?? Unless you all signed something explicitly saying you consented to have your email addres shared that's seriously shit data handling - that's the first thing I'd be complaining about.

NoSquirrels - no, it certainly is not excusable or understandable if they have never tried to ring the number listed as number 1 in the priority list. A bit more understandable, although still not remotely excusable, if they remember the first time they tried they only got through to the mother in the end, so on every subsequent occasion, they bypass bothering with the numbers that didn't answer and pick on the one they now perceive to be more reliable at answering or returning their calls. Maybe sometimes the child compounds the bias by asking for Mummy. To continue to behave in this way when parents remind them that the father should be contacted first on all occasions is just bizarre in the extreme, though - I would be filling out another form, highlighting who the first parent for contact is, and sending it into the school in case there has been a mistake and both parents are actually down as equal priority.

If forms like this routinely asked for the phone number and email addresses of both parents it might kick-start the process of breaking the assumptions. Of course some adults would choose only to provide one lot, that being their choice, and others would have no choice, so the form would need tactful wording.

When DS was at school - long ago! - the form asked for mother's data in terms! One of his class was brought up by a widowed father who must have changed his form. At that time he was probably used to it.

And the people who use these lists need to learn to use bcc which is not rocket science!