To be infuriated by this (school related!)

[ChippaChoc]

I am just about to send an email out to my DCs class to invite them to an event (the parents) via 'classlist'. This is an event for all parents (and DCs). Classlist is the way that parents and the PTA are supposed to communicate about any events, parties, social stuff outside of the normal school day but is also used most days to remind parents about things happening In the classroom too (e.g. Forest school days, sports day) which kids need kit etc for.

There's 30 parents on the list, not one is a father / male. I can't believe that still in 2017 when most of the parents at my DCs school work, plenty of them full time, it's only Mums that are on the school comms list. It has massively annoyed me. I know it won't change anything, but it just feels we are so far away from an equal load in terms of parental responsibility I can't see it will ever change. The class list sign up went out to all parents earlier this year (there's approximately 54 emails on that list, mums and dads) and low and behold only the Mums have signed up to receive communications regarding event / parties / anything outside of the formal school comms. I wasn't involved in that sign up admin process.

Off to hassle my DH about why he isn't on it now (I thought he was!)

At our schools the person in the playground was the one not at work that day, ditto sports day/fayres/concerts. There was an equal split with both mother and father being present.

I don't see the issue with whose email address school stuff goes to. I would if someone could tell me that at every school play, football match, sports day etc there were only ever mothers present but that's not true is it. Just emails then? how shocking. Not.

I do find the fuss about e-mails and texts mildly irritating. Not because I don't think it is lopsided, with mothers being the main point of contact more often than fathers, but because I think it is both cheaper and easier for the parents concerned to pass messages on to each other than to expect schools to ensure that everyone who might otherwise be offended gets a message that only one of the people receiving it will actually deal with. How much effort is it to communicate with your partner, fgs? Why insist the school carry the burden? Just work out between yourselves whose details to give, keep the school informed if you want this to change, and communicate with each other yourselves. It is not obligatory for the person receiving the message to be the one to deal with it.

I don't see how you're still missing the point round. The point isn't that it's hard to communicate with your partner, or that the person who receives the email has to deal with it. The point is that men don't tend to sign up for these emails and they don't tend to deal with them either.

'The point is that men don't tend to sign up for these emails and they don't tend to deal with them either'

Well I think you're missing the point. If men refused to be involved in any of the activities in said emails fair enough, but they don't refuse. In our school anyway its an equal share. The school sending emails to one household member who is female doesn't actually matter

I have not missed the point at all - I said I can see it is lopsided, I just don't see why schools should be expected to fix the issue.

Oh right so out of 30 people signing up, the fact that it's entirely women is a total coincidence?

Who said that schools should be expected to fix the issue round?

'Oh right so out of 30 people signing up, the fact that it's entirely women is a total coincidence'

No, not coincidence, they may well have been the ones to take the dc to school on the first day as mothers of young dc are often part time. If the information is shared at home like everything in family life then so what? At your school do you see dads at school plays, fayres, concerts etc. if yes what is your actual problem that women have their email addresses as contact?

Read theough all the messages, TheSparrowhawk - plenty of posters find it aggravating that only one person is contacted for social messages. If they are so keen for their partners to know about children's parties and forest schools, it's only a click away to forward the thrilling missive.

'No, not coincidence, they may well have been the ones to take the dc to school on the first day as mothers of young dc are often part time.'
Why are mothers of young dc often part time and not fathers?

'If the information is shared at home like everything in family life then so what?'
And what if it isn't shared? What if those mothers are dealing with everything to do with their children by themselves? I know a lot of mothers in that situation.

'At your school do you see dads at school plays, fayres, concerts etc. if yes what is your actual problem that women have their email addresses as contact?'
No, I don't. The vast vast majority of parents at school events are mothers. That's the case for many many schools in my experience.

'Read theough all the messages, TheSparrowhawk - plenty of posters find it aggravating that only one person is contacted for social messages. If they are so keen for their partners to know about children's parties and forest schools, it's only a click away to forward the thrilling missive.'

You're mixing two things up. The main issue is that when only one parent can sign up, it's usually the mother, because the father is 'too disorganised' or 'too busy' to bother with his children's schedule. So then everything falls to the mother and she's expected to either deal with the details or pass them on to her oh-so-busy-and-disorganised husband. Either way, the mother is the 'manager' of the whole thing.

People want more than one person to be listed so that both parents are equally involved and the onus isn't on one parent to manage it all.

If men wanted to be involved, of course, they could be the ones to sign up. Except, generally, they don't.

'No, I don't. The vast vast majority of parents at school events are mothers. That's the case for many many schools in my experience'

In that case I see why you think like you do. Ime its an even split, in fact the Dads seemed to be far more willing with football matches and sports days, even awful soft play parties where they'd sit reading the paper, the mothers tried to get out of as much as possible.

I think that's an unusual situation Myrtle. As you said yourself, mothers tend to work less than fathers, they tend to be the ones who do drop off and pick up and they tend to be the ones who know more and do more about school. An even split is not the norm in my experience.

'If men wanted to be involved, of course, they could be the ones to sign up. Except, generally, they don't'
Again, in your experience,. However in other's men do get involved. Maybe not submitting the imperative email address, perhaps they're just happy to chat at home and arrange whose doing what. It doesn't have to be 'managing' you know . How exhausting to live with such a chip on your shoulder.

You know that study that showed that if there were more than 30% women in any group the perception was that they were in a majority?

I think the same must apply to fathers at any primary school activity. Except I reckon the %age would be nearer 15.

Mothers tend to work less than Father's? I really don't think that is true anymore. In My eldest is in y8 and in Reception, that was probably the case. my youngest is in reception and now 90pc of kids have 3 FT working parents.There is one SAHD and 2 SAHM. Society is changing, thankfully.

Regardless of the situation in your school Gavel, women generally tend to work part time more often than men.

I disagree, the tendency is virtually gone nowb(or going), at least in London/SE and once the children are in school , and excepting maternity leave of.course.

And anyway, it's a crap excise for men not to be involved. Lots of people work FT and do PTA, class parent, governor etc. Email and whatsapp has meade it easy and many schools have the meetings in the evening now to facilitate this.

WOW! Just caught back up with this now. This has all got a bit interesting...

So another reminder from me (the OP) for the 5th time to say that this list i Am referring to is NOT THE SCHOOL CONTACT LiST it is another list that is used for parents of each individual class to communicate re 'fun stuff, class specific trips and events and play dates and parties and PTA events'. As I've said before 54 parents were invited to join this list (don't know split of gender) and 30 Mothers signed up. Everyone was invited by the same email originally at start of term (sent from the school) No men / fathers did. I know this because I can see first name and in brackets (mother) there's no privacy issue as someone referred to before.

I thought this a bit depressing not so much because there are 30 women on it (fine) but there are no men (additionally) meaning ALL these women chose to sign up and not one man bothered. They could both sign up but no one did that. Sure maybe every household discussed it (we didn't) but I doubt that because it's actually quite trivial. What I think possibly happened in a lot of cases (myself included) is I just assumed I had better sign up to be 'on top' of what's going on in my Dc's class...I work full time and have lots on in my spare time but I still chose to be bothered about this and no men did. That surprised me.

Some of the comments re the way schools have dealt with stuff are really annoying! anyway in my house I've signed DH up to the list and I've also asked him to stand for class rep (next year). That's all I feel I can do at a personal level alongside reminders that he needs to consistently take an active role in all 'kid stuff' too.

'it is another list that is used for parents of each individual class to communicate re 'fun stuff, class specific trips and events and play dates and parties '

We didn't have this list thank god, we managed by swapping mobile numbers, texts, chatting. Nice if you want to do it op, but there's no need and certainly a bit odd that you're 'depressed' that men don't sign up for an unnecessary social email list.

At schools my DC have attended, dads have turned up to assemblies, parties, sports days and whatnot. Usually there are more mothers than fathers, but definitely men do "show up".

But what they DON'T do, in my experience, is be the default parent on the FB group, or the email list, for the less critical but still important announcements or requests about cake sales, yoghurt pots for cress heads, lost property "has anyone seen Jimmy's hat" mails, or "what time does the coach leave for the trip" sort of admin.

They'll be there when they see a visible benefit and will usually - for sports days, soft play parties etc - have got the relevant info from their other half. They probably didn't source the yellow T shirt for sports day, answer the email about contributing to the class present for the party (or RSVP to the invite in the first place - & it's always mothers mobiles to RSVP to, regardless of who works full time as far as I can see), or make sure the kid had the costume in for the concert.

So it's not just "who signs up". Who signs up takes responsibility for being the person to manage the things that crop up from that email list/FB group.

The mother can forward emails to their OH and tell him about yoghurt pots or yellow t shirts if they want to delegate, of course. But if the hypothetical couple both work full time, why is the woman managing and delegating and bearing the responsibility? Why didn't the OH sign up to delegate instead? Of those 30 kids on that optional list, why is the mother the one who has put their hand up to that responsibility to know what's going on in the DC life? Why can't BOTH sign up-voluntarily- to get the emails, and then the couple had a hypothetical discussion "did you see about the yellow t shirt, DW, I'll pick one up from Tesco on the way home if we don't have one for DS?" Instead of "DH can you pick up..." where it's just glorified mental management.

I honestly honestly can't see why this is controversial to anyone - that both parents should be equally interested in the minutiae of their DCs lives. It's hardly duplicating effort is it, if everyone's communication is so fucking brilliant anyway.

I have a friend who actually forgot to apply for her DD2's school place this year. Her husband does the school run and so was the only one to see the reminder poster, but assumed that his wife had applied as she does all the school admin.

We don't have classlist at school, but DH is signed up to receive school emails and texts. He tends to ignore them though and I do all the admin and ParentPay. I actually prefer this as I have more time being a SAHM and am also good at remembering dates of when everything is. But I do agree that this sort of thing shouldn't automatically be the mum's responsibility, especially if both parents work.

We also have WhatsApp groups that are called "Year 1 mums" and so on. It is nearly always mums that send the texts yo reply to party invites.

Myrtle when you "swapped mobile numbers, texts and chatting" how often did any of that go via a dad not a mum?

This email list - voluntary - should make it easier for me/full-time workers but be excluded from school gate life and be more involved in what's happening.

But the men don't want to be involved.

It's not compulsory- that's the point the OP is making - and so the fathers haven't bothered at all.

Our list has dads on it.

Although their OHs are always the most meticulous about actually attending parents socials etc - we never see the SAHDs at the Christmas dinners etc.